Popular Post allani Posted Saturday at 21:39 Popular Post Share Posted Saturday at 21:39 2 hours ago, markavfc40 said: I have read this a couple of times on here recently and I am not sure where quiet frankly this BS comes from. No one from what I can see thinks their grievances should be shared by every fan. I am sure everyone would accept that someone who rarely/never attends or who has only started following the club in the last few years would feel differently to someone who stuck by the club through piles upon on piles of shit and very little shine and who is now being priced out, being charged a fortune to then have to wade through piss if they happen to need the toilet, finding the seat they are purchasing doesn't exist, finding that friends/family/people they have sat/stood with for years have been moved away from them etc, etc, etc. I'll be honest with you TRO your opinion surprises me a little. You are someone like myself who has been going for years but who like me hasn't yet been priced out. Unlike me though you seem to have sided with the club and see the treatment of loyal supporters as fair game and just how things are. Every price rise tips another 10, 100, 500 regular match goers over breaking point and they can't then attend. It can't be right that supporters that stuck with the club through all the shit then get priced out of seeing a little bit of shine. Even those of us who can afford to still go, or who are still willing to stomach the increases, find the facilities lacking, and/or we have been moved way from family/friends, and/or our seats don't exist, and/or we don't get into the ground for kick off despite arriving early. Success on the pitch doesn't mean the treatment of supporters doesn't matter. Far from it. The club needed many of us when it was clinging to us on the lower rungs of the ladder. To now climb over, or kick off, some of us now it has moved up a few rungs is shameful. Is this a true description of the club's preferred business model though? If NSWE were able to lose £100m a year (made up by the fact that the "value" of the business was increasing by a similar amount) then I'm pretty sure half these things wouldn't be happening. They'd be far more interested in knowing that they'd spent £1.5b on the club and could sell it for £1.8b than they would be on whether the club had made a profit / loss. The business model is what the PL / UEFA are forcing football to be about. It doesn't matter where you finish in the league. It doesn't matter how nice you are to your fans. The only measure that the PL and UEFA value is revenue. They are the enemy here. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted Saturday at 22:53 VT Supporter Share Posted Saturday at 22:53 10 hours ago, Captain_Townsend said: Big business needs customers mate and if the customer service is shit and the staff are rude they aren't getting my money. There’s a difference between match day and real customer service, and fans perceived opinions on not being engaged in decisions they don’t like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted Saturday at 23:00 VT Supporter Share Posted Saturday at 23:00 9 hours ago, Andy_10 said: Do you see all of that via satellite all the way across the other side of the world in Brisbane, Australia? He lied about the crest. A 42 year anniversary edition? Or whatever nonsense he said. The only anniversary crest we actually needed was a 150th year celebration crest. And he created some weird Americana inspired stamp on the back of the shirts for that. But a 42 year anniversary crest? We arent 5 years old. If he was just honest & said it reminded him of Chelseas & that wouldn't work for the branding, then fine. I would accept that. And I think most fans would too. Most did with the Douglas Luiz/PSR issue that I have mentioned below. But he didn't. He said it was a random year anniversary crest. He also blamed sales. Which was corrupted data as two crests competed against each other at the same time, & was data gathered far too early to be anything other than corrupted nonsense. And then he blamed the costing of changing it around the stadium, training ground, etc. Which again, utter nonsense. It may look "similar" to the untrained eye, but when you break down each element to the sum of its individual parts, especially for reproduction around the stadium & training ground, they are all different sizes, widths, piping, different typeface, 'that' ridiculous drop shadow, etc, etc. The only "cheap option" would have been placing the lino art lion into the fans voted circle. It would have fixed the fans issue of the lion facing the wrong way, it would have kept a continuity with the overall branding after the change to the circle, & the changes around the stadium & training ground could have been done by removing the shield, leaving the lion on its own & making any other changes gradually. So he lied. He lied about the stand. "Too many seats too soon"? What does that even mean? Just admit that they want to work on the corporate side of the stadium & they have different long term plans for the stadium. If he/they are honest, fans will accept a lot more than we are given credit for. And for the proof of that, you only have to look at the summers sale of Douglas Luiz. I think Sawiris explained the difficult PSR situation we were in & the tough decisions that needed to be made, but the hard truth was given to us like adults, with respect & honesty. And we as fans, accepted the situation for what it was. Good communication is key for branding when it comes to big business. And Hecks communication is poor. And thats not "wanting a hug". Thats wanting the business that I, as a customer, give a lot of money to each year, to show me the basic trust & honesty to not lie to me, to show me some respect, treat me like an adult & do the very basics of branding 101 when it comes to keeping the core customer base of the company happy & engaged with the brand. And again, Im not talking "for" the fanbase. I am talking from a branding exercise perspective. So… you’re complaining about operational outcomes? He didn’t lie, the club made a decisions based on business needs. I’ve received emails from the club for nearly 25 years with questionnaires and engagements and never saw any of these things materialise with the club. Engagement is a token gesture by the club all businesses do it for feedback, in some cases they may alter their business plan based on the feedback, but the reality is they have KPI’s to meet and that will be what ultimately drives decision making. You don’t seem to get that He k was hired to do a dirty job and increase revenue, the owners new they would take heat from some of the decisions, so Heck is also the buffer between the fans and the board. He will drive some decision making but ultimately the owners sign off on those. In your case it appears the owners plan is working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fight Like Lions Posted Saturday at 23:44 Share Posted Saturday at 23:44 The longer we wait for these FAB minutes the more I clown myself that they might actually be worth reading… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted yesterday at 03:02 Share Posted yesterday at 03:02 15 hours ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: Adidas not doing our version of these? No, but it's ok. To make up for money the club would have raised selling them, ticket prices are going up again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted yesterday at 03:40 Share Posted yesterday at 03:40 On 27/09/2024 at 10:21, Risso said: A general topic to discuss how fans feel the relationship with the powers that be at the club currently stands. Unfortunately, while the performances on the pitch are as good as most people can remember, the wider relationship with the board in my opinion is as low as the worst days under Ellis. Most of this seems to have got a lot worse since Chris Heck took over, we've had: The poor communication re the cancellation of the North Stand rebuild The ridiculous and unneccessary badge situation Ticket prices going through the roof and a general feeling of being exploited The Fan Advisory Board being not fit for purpose and two representatives from major fan forums resigning from it Lack of action re the sub standard facilities in many parts of the ground I don't feel like this at all. Yes the north stand stuff is weird and changing the badge was completely stupid given we voted on it! As for being exploited, last season we have the 12th highest season ticket prices and the three immediately below us were very similarly priced I doubt we are any higher than the 10th highest this year even though we spend more than the 10th highest revenue. 'Sub standard' facilities will generally exist whist sub standard stands exist (DE/North especially) basically we have two old crap stands and average ones........ people don't get the logistics of changing the plumbing in a stand like the holte with its now infamous piss floors, I am sure they have a plan for it. I will say this and it's aimed at the people who agree with you, I love the people in charge of the club, they have done everything I could have asked for in the last 5 years or so. I think people of your mindset are ungrateful or at least unrealistic at what has been done and what IS currently being done. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted yesterday at 04:37 Share Posted yesterday at 04:37 13 minutes ago, paul514 said: I think people of your mindset are ungrateful or at least unrealistic at what has been done and what IS currently being done. Lol. Ungrateful at being asked to pay more than Liverpool fans for tickets. Unrealistic asking the club to not have us swimming in piss. Unrealistic to be able to get in the ground for kick-off when arriving with an hour to spare. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted yesterday at 06:00 Share Posted yesterday at 06:00 6 hours ago, Fight Like Lions said: The longer we wait for these FAB minutes the more I clown myself that they might actually be worth reading… I've read them. Apparently they open with a statement regarding our great and imperial leader receiving a 13 minute standing ovation from his loyal subjects. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted yesterday at 06:40 VT Supporter Share Posted yesterday at 06:40 (edited) 17 hours ago, Villa_Vids said: Rightfully so too. Media have still run with it - they love this negativity that STHs/legacy fans are providing them. We (all fans) need to show some mettle and have a pop at uefa/Premier League - ticketing should be reasonable across the board. I am not turning on our best owners because of a rigged system. Legacy fans. Love that expression. Those pain in the arse fans who have followed the club for years through thick and thin. A legacy issue to be dealt with and dropped ASAP for some shiny new rich fans. Edited yesterday at 08:12 by sidcow 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaVilla Posted yesterday at 07:12 Share Posted yesterday at 07:12 (edited) Unfortunately there is no middle ground. We either get revenue to a level that means success is far more sustainable (we will still be light years behind the largest teams) or we will ultimately have to sell our best players to remain competitive and then sooner or later we lose Emery. The plan is to try and keep our best players and then make money on the squaddies that are brought in and developed. Obviously facilities have to improve for supporters and they will. However the fundamental question facing many existing season ticket holders is not how much do you hate Chris heck but how successful do we want Emery to be? Progress is very much a double edged sword and for the next few years at least unfortunately many of us may have to pick and choose games if we can’t afford to go to every game. It’s a horrible choice but unfortunately that’s football for us right now. Edited yesterday at 07:13 by DakotaVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted yesterday at 07:52 VT Supporter Share Posted yesterday at 07:52 (edited) 13 hours ago, TRO said: Football isn’t much different……they just want our Roar or chants…..then we can **** off home. Problem is you do still need to pack them in to get those roars or chants. This new world of global fans we're targeting are hardly going to watch us on telly in a half empty stadium against Bologna with a library atmosphere and go "yep, that's my new club I'm going to support now, book me on a flight with some GA+ tickets so I can experience those empty spaces first hand" Could probably do with a few thousand of those pesky "legacy" fans about the place to teach them the words. Edited yesterday at 08:10 by sidcow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted yesterday at 07:59 VT Supporter Share Posted yesterday at 07:59 13 hours ago, nick76 said: That’s not realism, that’s defeatism. Some people just accept whatever gets thrown at them and some people don’t. Maybe the ones that don’t are fools but I’d rather be a fool and have tried. Fans pressure can do a lot of things and sometimes it doesn’t do anything but stopping the Superleague breakaway was a win but many down the years haven’t. Many said we can’t stop the superleague but enough fans stood their ground and it went away sharpish…so I say no thanks to defeatism. So many good things going on but we shouldn’t be blind to the bad things. Realism isn’t just accepting everything because we have the smaller voice. We don’t agree on this matter but your realism isn’t my realism and vice versa. The reality is that Steve Bruce was probably going to remain our manager for quite a few weeks more until a protesting fan threw a cabbage at him. The reality is that we were going to get a new manager from that point sharpish. A few weeks later and we probably wouldn't have had enough time to turn it around and get promoted. If that fan had just accepted the realities of the situation and waited for the owners to take action we probably wouldn't be worrying about the price of Champions League tickets. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted yesterday at 08:00 Share Posted yesterday at 08:00 8 minutes ago, sidcow said: Could probably do with a few thousand of those pesky "legacy" fans about the place to teach them the words. Dinosaurs mate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted yesterday at 08:44 Share Posted yesterday at 08:44 (edited) 1 hour ago, DakotaVilla said: However the fundamental question facing many existing season ticket holders is not how much do you hate Chris heck but how successful do we want Emery to be? Progress is very much a double edged sword and for the next few years at least unfortunately many of us may have to pick and choose games if we can’t afford to go to every game. No point Villa having success if I can’t go and see and enjoy it for me personally. A large part of the enjoyment for me is the journey of getting that success, the memories and all that. Am I happy we won all those trophies back in the 19th century? Of course! Would I swap them all for one season seeing and following Villa this season win the league for example? In a heartbeat. I want Emery to be as successful as he can be in line with loyal fans being able to afford to go. I don’t see the point if only the prawn sandwich brigade can go. I also don’t think your analysis is correct. It’s not like match day average day tickets make up a large percentage of revenue, it’s actually very small percentage for most clubs. Edited yesterday at 08:47 by nick76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted yesterday at 08:44 VT Supporter Share Posted yesterday at 08:44 9 hours ago, QldVilla said: So… you’re complaining about operational outcomes? He didn’t lie, the club made a decisions based on business needs. I’ve received emails from the club for nearly 25 years with questionnaires and engagements and never saw any of these things materialise with the club. Engagement is a token gesture by the club all businesses do it for feedback, in some cases they may alter their business plan based on the feedback, but the reality is they have KPI’s to meet and that will be what ultimately drives decision making. You don’t seem to get that He k was hired to do a dirty job and increase revenue, the owners new they would take heat from some of the decisions, so Heck is also the buffer between the fans and the board. He will drive some decision making but ultimately the owners sign off on those. In your case it appears the owners plan is working. Whether you agree with what Heck does or not, one thing that is undeniable is that he lies all the time. He’s full of shit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_10 Posted yesterday at 08:49 Share Posted yesterday at 08:49 15 hours ago, TRO said: Andy, I am no position to question your expertise…and nor would I. You could well be better than anything they have, but that’s not my point. My point is, I don’t think it’s our job, to tell them how to do things, unless they ask. I suspect there are many folk in the fan base, who have a skill set of excellence,in all sorts of aspects, but the club have to do things for themselves. Just as an example, Think of how many scouts in the crowd who feel they could do a better job…..blimey some think they are better players lol. rightly or wrongly, they have to survive on their decision making, and the owners will give them enough latitude to prove that, until they are satisfied it’s not working, and only then will they take action. Look, We all love the club, but we can’t tell them how to run it…..even if we see things we think we could do better. Hey, I know that the crest is all done & dusted from a graphics perspective. Which is why I haven't gone on & on about the actual design. The fallout from that though, the poor communication, & in the examples I have given, downright lies, in my opinion, were in answer to another poster who questioned that there had been "untruths". And at the end of the day, we are here giving our opinion on all elements of the club. And without our opinions, this place becomes a little pointless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaVilla Posted yesterday at 09:03 Share Posted yesterday at 09:03 (edited) 18 minutes ago, nick76 said: No point Villa having success if I can’t go and see and enjoy it for me personally. A large part of the enjoyment for me is the journey of getting that success, the memories and all that. Am I happy we won all those trophies back in the 19th century? Of course! Would I swap them all for one season seeing and following Villa this season win the league for example? In a heartbeat. I want Emery to be as successful as he can be in line with loyal fans being able to afford to go. I don’t see the point if only the prawn sandwich brigade can go. I also don’t think your analysis is correct. It’s not like match day average day tickets make up a large percentage of revenue, it’s actually very small percentage for most clubs. Thank you for a very honest post. If we can’t go to the games as we used to then of course that’s not going to be taken positively. That’s the emotion and collective realisation behind a lot of this angst v heck - he’s a figure head for this collective realisation that success is not going to be 100 percent positive for all of us. And again for the millionth time the club HAS to maximize ALL revenue streams to hit 450 minimum. No one, will get an easy ride. Edited yesterday at 09:04 by DakotaVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_10 Posted yesterday at 09:15 Share Posted yesterday at 09:15 9 hours ago, QldVilla said: So… you’re complaining about operational outcomes? He didn’t lie, the club made a decisions based on business needs. I’ve received emails from the club for nearly 25 years with questionnaires and engagements and never saw any of these things materialise with the club. Engagement is a token gesture by the club all businesses do it for feedback, in some cases they may alter their business plan based on the feedback, but the reality is they have KPI’s to meet and that will be what ultimately drives decision making. You don’t seem to get that He k was hired to do a dirty job and increase revenue, the owners new they would take heat from some of the decisions, so Heck is also the buffer between the fans and the board. He will drive some decision making but ultimately the owners sign off on those. In your case it appears the owners plan is working. Not operational outcomes, no. He may have attempted to use that as one of his excuses for having a third crest in two years, but any data compiled to create a valid reason for change was corrupted by his decision to run two crests against each other at the same time & the timing of collating that data so that he could blame the new one for its own failure. As for fan engagement, whether you have seen any other materialise in your time filling them out (or ignoring them, if the case may be), is immaterial when the fan collated data was actually utilised to create the circular crest. It was collated, utilised & acted upon to create a major brand asset for the business in the circular crest/logo. And like I have said, if he said that the crest looked too much like Chelseas & wanted to change that because it could affect the brand of Aston Villa, then fine. I am treated like an adult, they show me some respect as a customer & I accept their decision is based upon sound reasoning. But the lies about it being a 42 year anniversary version, that it wasn't working from a sales perspective due to the above mentioned Heck created issues & that it would be cheaper to start from scratch all over again with a similar one to the Lerner version that they had already explained to us was washed out, not great, etc, for around the stadium & training ground before they decided to change it to the circular version, are all exactly that, lies. It's not marketing, it's not token fan engagement, it's not taking worthwhile data & making a switch, it was lies. Which is the whole point of my response to you when you claimed that there have been none. And so unnecessary too, as we showed with the Douglas Luiz sale/PSR adult & honest explanation that if they show us some respect, we give it right back. And I do recognise & accept that Heck is a hired gun. A dirty assassin. Or however it could be labelled. And I recognise that difficult decisions have to be made, with a lot of them are ultimately made by the owners. I have said as such many times on the dedicated Heck thread. I imagine that sentiment is why this thread was created in the first place. But that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the lack of respect that Heck shows the customers of the business through his constant poor communication & lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted yesterday at 10:16 Share Posted yesterday at 10:16 15 hours ago, nick76 said: That’s not realism, that’s defeatism. Some people just accept whatever gets thrown at them and some people don’t. Maybe the ones that don’t are fools but I’d rather be a fool and have tried. Fans pressure can do a lot of things and sometimes it doesn’t do anything but stopping the Superleague breakaway was a win but many down the years haven’t. Many said we can’t stop the superleague but enough fans stood their ground and it went away sharpish…so I say no thanks to defeatism. So many good things going on but we shouldn’t be blind to the bad things. Realism isn’t just accepting everything because we have the smaller voice. We don’t agree on this matter but your realism isn’t my realism and vice versa. Well said Nick, and I agree in principle. The problem is Nick, is getting the masses to agree on anything, so many opinions are divided, on everything, Football is just one. as an example.....pick a team, and you would get umpteen versions of it, if you asked the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted yesterday at 10:30 Share Posted yesterday at 10:30 (edited) On 28/09/2024 at 20:21, markavfc40 said: I have read this a couple of times on here recently and I am not sure where quiet frankly this BS comes from. No one from what I can see thinks their grievances should be shared by every fan. I am sure everyone would accept that someone who rarely/never attends or who has only started following the club in the last few years would feel differently to someone who stuck by the club through piles upon on piles of shit and very little shine and who is now being priced out, being charged a fortune to then have to wade through piss if they happen to need the toilet, finding the seat they are purchasing doesn't exist, finding that friends/family/people they have sat/stood with for years have been moved away from them etc, etc, etc. I'll be honest with you TRO your opinion surprises me a little. You are someone like myself who has been going for years but who like me hasn't yet been priced out. Unlike me though you seem to have sided with the club and see the treatment of loyal supporters as fair game and just how things are. Every price rise tips another 10, 100, 500 regular match goers over breaking point and they can't then attend. It can't be right that supporters that stuck with the club through all the shit then get priced out of seeing a little bit of shine. Even those of us who can afford to still go, or who are still willing to stomach the increases, find the facilities lacking, and/or we have been moved way from family/friends, and/or our seats don't exist, and/or we don't get into the ground for kick off despite arriving early. Success on the pitch doesn't mean the treatment of supporters doesn't matter. Far from it. The club needed many of us when it was clinging to us on the lower rungs of the ladder. To now climb over, or kick off, some of us now it has moved up a few rungs is shameful. I think you have misread my sentiments mark.....and your constant reference to wading through urine ( which is totally unacceptable) seems to have taken centre stage, when to my Knowledge happened once on the opening day of the season, when they was racing against time for the contractors to have it ready. I am not surprised that my opinion surprises you, but I am not in favour of going after the club, when I am unsure of the full circumstances, behind the issues. should they have apologised, for the unacceptable conditions you mention?, yes they should have. I don't stick up for anyone, I just examine what I know and comment on that, I try to be reasonable.....I accept at times, I don't know enough, to criticise. There must be Oodles of issues the club faces and we don't have a scooby, what they have to face to balance things out. Finally, I would like to think, That I think before I write, so classing it as BS is quite disappointing. Edited 14 hours ago by TRO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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