The club's relationship with the fans

[thabucks]

Just to be clear I despise modern football ethics and commercialism but I’m also a realist and understand where i stand - I’m a fan number and revenue stream - they don’t care I’ve been to over 200 games, they only care about how much money they can extract from me this season.

There is no such thing nowadays as fan loyalty from both sides of the coin - our attendances in the championship showed that fans are fickle and success based. Now we are mixing it with the elite at the top everyone what’s to go and the club see this and say ok but you have to pay top dollar - if you don’t like it they don’t care as there is someone else who will pay. Some games won’t sell out but that seat that’s empty for wolves will be sold more often than not. It’s shit but again it’s modern football which all teams do and we’re no different nor worse. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, thabucks said:

I only care really about the fact we can go top tomorrow if we win … we are also playing Bayern Munich in the champions league. That’s what’s is important to me 

if you’re feeling disconnected from the club then that’s for you to deal with. Like it or not you’re just a number , a consumer and you have been for many years to the club. They have to pay lip service but overall they don’t care about you that much. We are owned by hard nosed billionaires or got to where they are by sheer determination and focus on one thing and that’s the money and bottom line and not the human aspect of their decisions.  They’ve transformed our club from the brink of oblivion to champions league in 5 years without saddling us with debt and now it’s the fans turn to pay up. Fair enough imo. 

Hard calls had to be made in order to raise revenues - they’ve done that efficiently and coldly and that’s how big successful businesses operate.

Do you really think they care if you cannot afford it as there is someone just as much a fan as you out there who can. It’s horrible for those who have been priced out. But they have to operate on maximising every revenue stream possible due to rules which are set out to cement the elite.

I don’t care much for the politics of modern football which is corrupt but I also understand my place in it which is just a number and someone who can either afford it or not - they don’t care about much else. It’s modern football finances and you either have to accept that and get over it or not but it’s not going away anytime and it’s not some evil plan by Heck & co it’s the inevitability of success. 

I am with you.

but it’s only opinions, and folk who do not agree with us, have theirs.

I think the misconception kicks in where, some folk think their grievances with the club is shared by all, when in fact although we all share the price increase, as a constant , there is a variable  in the degree of disappointment.

I don’t care for politics in just about everything, right now, not just football.

 

[TRO]

There is a good test, to see how important we all are….

Put your hands in to a bucket of water, remove them and see what impression you leave?

It kinda reminds us.

[TRO]

We live in a world now, where celebrities, just collect tweets, / followers, podcasters collect “likes and members”

political parties want votes.

businesses want e mail addresses…..they all want you to sign up for everything to gain approval and personal power ratings.

Football isn’t much different……they just want our Roar or chants…..then we can **** off home.

Edited Saturday at 18:44 by TRO

[Mark Albrighton]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

We live in a world now, where celebrities, just collect tweets, podcasters collect “likes”

businesses want e mail addresses…..they all want you to sign up for everything to gain approval and personal power ratings.

Football isn’t much different……they just want our Roar or chants…..then we can **** off home.

It sounds like they want the money. The roar and the chants sound significantly less necessary.

Ultimately if the club doesn’t give a shit about the supporters beyond being a commodity, then they can’t get too upset if the atmosphere at games is reflective of that dynamic.

[nick76]

18 minutes ago, thabucks said:

Just to be clear I despise modern football ethics and commercialism but I’m also a realist and understand where i stand

That’s not realism, that’s defeatism.  Some people just accept whatever gets thrown at them and some people don’t.  Maybe the ones that don’t are fools but I’d rather be a fool and have tried.  Fans pressure can do a lot of things and sometimes it doesn’t do anything but stopping the Superleague breakaway was a win but many down the years haven’t.  Many said we can’t stop the superleague but enough fans stood their ground and it went away sharpish…so I say no thanks to defeatism.  So many good things going on but we shouldn’t be blind to the bad things.  Realism isn’t just accepting everything because we have the smaller voice.  We don’t agree on this matter but your realism isn’t my realism and vice versa.

[nick76]

3 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

It sounds like they want the money. The roar and the chants sound significantly less necessary.

Ultimately if the club doesn’t give a shit about the supporters beyond being a commodity, then they can’t get too upset if the atmosphere at games is reflective of that dynamic.

Yep Pep keeps moaning how bad the atmosphere is at the Etihad as an example.

[VillaChris]

50 minutes ago, tinker said:

What game? 39000 for wolves , that's how many empty? 3000, hardly loads. I think the Crystal Palace Cup game will show us how well Heck pricing policy will do .......they should have attached it to the Bologna game or something like that but time will tell, if he's wrong, he will pay with his job, as Purslow, SG and Dean Smith did. Failure is not an option. 

Palace is already confirmed as 25 quid in all parts of the ground so no issue with that at all.

Bologna though, not a huge name for the floating fan like the other three ties and how many of our hardcore fanbase will really stump up at least 85 quid to watch that game, will be interesting from a marketing perspective.

[VillaChris]

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

We live in a world now, where celebrities, just collect tweets, / followers, podcasters collect “likes and members”

political parties want votes.

businesses want e mail addresses…..they all want you to sign up for everything to gain approval and personal power ratings.

Football isn’t much different……they just want our Roar or chants…..then we can **** off home.

Going through the covid period for 18 months and how hollow live football was infront of empty stands and then three years later jacking the prices up without a second's thoughts says it all.

Football isn't completely dead with the ownership disregarding fans but this is probably the first time I can remember where they're genuinely trying to get in more day trippers and disregarding long serving season ticket holders as a result for maximum financial game.

In the past the two differing types of fanbase have always co-existed as we see at Man. United and Liverpool who attract the most in the prem.

[tinker]

1 minute ago, VillaChris said:

Palace is already confirmed as 25 quid in all parts of the ground so no issue with that at all.

Bologna though, not a huge name for the floating fan like the other three ties and how many of our hardcore fanbase will really stump up at least 85 quid to watch that game, will be interesting from a marketing perspective.

And that's the balancing act Heck has to get right. I don't think he has tbh but we will see. And if he's wrong then he has to adapt and change, question is will he? If he's as arrogant as some believe then he won't and we will end up with a half empty ground and at that point he's failed and NWSE will address the failure, of that I'm sure.

Some posters spend more time moaning about the negatives than the positives, and it's noticeable that their also on the match thread moaning when most of us are watching the game, it's especially strange when we're at home, must have in ground wi fi  

[tomav84]

1 hour ago, tinker said:

What game? 39000 for wolves , that's how many empty? 3000, hardly loads. I think the Crystal Palace Cup game will show us how well Heck pricing policy will do .......they should have attached it to the Bologna game or something like that but time will tell, if he's wrong, he will pay with his job, as Purslow, SG and Dean Smith did. Failure is not an option. 

considering we've sold out pretty much every home game since COVID and we have a supposed long season ticket waiting list, 3000 empty seats is not small number for a saturday 3pm game against a local rival

[thabucks]

13 minutes ago, nick76 said:

That’s not realism, that’s defeatism.  Some people just accept whatever gets thrown at them and some people don’t.  Maybe the ones that don’t are fools but I’d rather be a fool and have tried.  Fans pressure can do a lot of things and sometimes it doesn’t do anything but stopping the Superleague breakaway was a win but many down the years haven’t.  Many said we can’t stop the superleague but enough fans stood their ground and it went away sharpish…so I say no thanks to defeatism.  So many good things going on but we shouldn’t be blind to the bad things.  Realism isn’t just accepting everything because we have the smaller voice.  We don’t agree on this matter but your realism isn’t my realism and vice versa.

Yeah I agree with your stance and they cannot continue to jack up prices season on season without major discontent.  Fan power is real for sure and I'm not dismissive of that whilst also understanding we are just customers at the same time. I think this seasons increases are justifiable however unpalatable for some. 

I think we will see a couple of years of no further Increases or a slight decrease in some areas and categories as contrary to some beliefs heck and his team are stupid. 

[markavfc40]

15 hours ago, TRO said:

I think the misconception kicks in where, some folk think their grievances with the club is shared by all

I have read this a couple of times on here recently and I am not sure where quiet frankly this BS comes from. No one from what I can see thinks their grievances should be shared by every fan. I am sure everyone would accept that someone who rarely/never attends or who has only started following the club in the last few years would feel differently to someone who stuck by the club through piles upon on piles of shit and very little shine and who is now being priced out, being charged a fortune to then have to wade through piss if they happen to need the toilet, finding the seat they are purchasing doesn't exist, finding that friends/family/people they have sat/stood with for years have been moved away from them etc, etc, etc.

I'll be honest with you TRO your opinion surprises me a little. You are someone like myself who has been going for years but who like me hasn't yet been priced out. Unlike me though you seem to have sided with the club and see the treatment of loyal supporters as fair game and just how things are.  Every price rise tips another 10, 100, 500 regular match goers over breaking point and they can't then attend.  It can't be right that supporters that stuck with the club through all the shit then get priced out of seeing a little bit of shine. Even those of us who can afford to still go, or who are still willing to stomach the increases, find the facilities lacking, and/or we have been moved away from family/friends, and/or our seats don't exist, and/or we don't get into the ground for kick off despite arriving early. 

Success on the pitch doesn't mean the treatment of supporters doesn't matter. Far from it. The club needed many of us when it was clinging to us on the lower rungs of the ladder. To now climb over, or kick off, some of us now it has moved up a few rungs is shameful. 

Edited yesterday at 10:18 by markavfc40

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

31 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

" without a second's thoughts " says it all.

 

How do you all know this... and everything else which happens in the boardroom?

I think some of you have legit gone out of your way to create some kind of supervillain characters ( Well....character ) behind the scenes as a form of pacification to the more real and logical reasonings put forward.

David Icke would be proud!

 

Sidenote: I do like David Icke though.

Edited Saturday at 19:24 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[VillaChris]

12 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

How do you all know this... and everything else which happens in the boardroom?

I think some of you have legit gone out of your way to create some kind of supervillain characters ( Well....character ) behind the scenes as a form of pacification to the more real and logical reasonings put forward.

David Icke would be proud!

 

Sidenote: I do like David Icke though.

I'm sure NSWE would've attended games live in the covid era. Regardless of money you'd need a heart of stone not to feel how soulless Football was in that period without fans.

What I'm saying is it would be stupid to create a business model where we go down to 35k or lower again in next year or two (even if some of that crowd are paying what is needed for the club).

Let's try and get the balance right as it's been great having 40k + in every single league home game for the last five years and that has translated into regular home wins and the opposition not fancying playing at VP anymore.

We don't want to create a business model in the long term that pees off even 10% of that figure. I could easily see the Cat A games being CL prices in a season or two if people just meekly accept this increase.

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

We live in a world now, where celebrities, just collect tweets, / followers, podcasters collect “likes and members”

political parties want votes.

businesses want e mail addresses…..they all want you to sign up for everything to gain approval and personal power ratings.

Football isn’t much different……they just want our Roar or chants…..then we can **** off home.

Perhaps cynical but still very true!

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

That’s not realism, that’s defeatism.  Some people just accept whatever gets thrown at them and some people don’t.  Maybe the ones that don’t are fools but I’d rather be a fool and have tried.  Fans pressure can do a lot of things and sometimes it doesn’t do anything but stopping the Superleague breakaway was a win but many down the years haven’t.  Many said we can’t stop the superleague but enough fans stood their ground and it went away sharpish…so I say no thanks to defeatism.  So many good things going on but we shouldn’t be blind to the bad things.  Realism isn’t just accepting everything because we have the smaller voice.  We don’t agree on this matter but your realism isn’t my realism and vice versa.

I look forward to my good night text from Chris Heck, which I. Sure you do too. As everyone else must too. 

[Captain_Townsend]

I find the idea that two billionaires, who would have zero concept of managing family finance in a cost of living crisis, sitting in front of a spreadsheet trying to figure out how to price a Villa game absolutely hilarious  

They hire people to understand what people can afford and run the club accordingly. 

I also find it hilarious that when Purslow was CEO,  he would literally get blamed if the team manager so much as let out a fart yet when the dude they hired with the title 'President of Business Operations' literally tells us in an interview that he decided X and he decided Y we have to assume 'oh that wasn't Chris, that was clearly mirror management from on high'.

Yes the truth is somewhere in the middle but people are forgetting that the early concerns people had were based on the CV he came with and especially his one job on football where he was sacked for alienating fans.

Why is this thread even happening? It isn't rocket science.  Please somebody gey him in a room with Emery to learn about bringing the fans with him, it would do the whole club a world of good.

 

And it isn't fair to insinuate people are too silly or emotional to understand the whole picture, as per Andy's post a few pages back, people here have their own kinds of experience out there that informs how they look on the operation at Villa 

Edited Saturday at 20:11 by Captain_Townsend

[allani]

I'm going to keep out of this thread in general (as well as several others on related topics) but I think people are seeing completely the wrong enemy here.  The enemy shouldn't be Heck, it shouldn't be NSWE / Atairos.  The enemy here is the PL & UEFA and the ridiculous rules they have implemented to support the status quo and the "elite" clubs.  If FFP / PSR / etc didn't exist - very few of the decisions that are being made at the club would have been made.  Nas and Wes (and countless of their senior management team) have stated on multiple occasions that they are being prevented from running the club the way they want because they are having to comply with these ridiculous PSR / UEFA rules that place revenue at the centre of everything.  We can't hope to challenge the top 4 or the top 6 every season if they are able to spend two or three times the amount as us and we have to sell our best players just to comply with competition rules.

People can be pissed off at the club about the toilets / bathrooms and the length of time it takes to get served a beer or a pie.  But with almost everything else - I think the guns are being aimed in the wrong direction.  The owners aren't setting Heck targets on revenue generation to line their own pockets, they're not even doing it to minimise the money they are putting into the club.  They've more than done enough to show that they are comfortable with putting in more of their own money knowing that the value of their investment is increasing at least in line with this.  People should be complaining about how we are a great example of exactly why PSR is broken, why football is broken and why someone needs to **** on UEFA and the PL and declare the current rules illegal as breaking pretty much all fair competition and anti-cartel regulations that apply in almost every other type of "business".

There are plenty of ways to protect clubs from incompetent or corrupt owners - none of which would inhibit the aspirations of ambitious owners with a sound business plan in place.  Revenue is a pretty meaningless measure of almost any business - many of the most successful / valuable businesses in the world barely break even in any given year (partly down to tax "avoidance").  As it is we're being told that to be allowed to even try playing on the same playing field as the "old elite" we need to almost treble our revenue.  Yet we're not allowed to manufacture "artificial" sponsorship income (you can bet your mortgage on the fact that had Comcast sponsored Villa for £75m a year this season then the PL would have investigated the hell out of it and done all they could to block it), spending money on big stadium projects to bring in more fans is harder (see the problems Everton had compared to how easy it was for the "old elite" to do it or "inherit" government funded stadia), etc.

Trying to get Heck sacked is only likely to **** off our owners (unless he is massively failing to deliver against the targets they have set in which case they don't need fans to be telling them that).  It won't change anything - apart from maybe get someone in who can make hard ass decisions in the background whilst charming the pants off fans in the foreground (without ever lying or embellishing the truth).  So in my book it seems like there are 2 choices - (1) tell NSWE that "thanks but no thanks" we'd prefer to be playing for 14th every season and sell anyone who becomes a regular international so that we can keep prices low or (2) support the club by attacking the PL & UEFA and the real issue which is that the interests of the "old elite" far outweight true competition, ambition for all and you know actual financial fair play.  Although we've "lost" money over the last 3 years I doubt you could find a single accountant or financial expert in the world who would say that we are in a worse position now than we were 3 or 5 years ago.  Yes, we've lost money.  But it is not an amount that will impact on the wealth of our owners.  The losses are more than covered by the fact that the "business" is now worth at least 10 times what the owners bought it for.  Hell it is covered maybe 4 or 5 times over by just the value of the players - compare the current "value" of our squad to that of the squad when we were promoted.  Yet all of this is deemed irrelevant by the authorities.

[Tomaszk]

4 hours ago, thabucks said:

I only care really about the fact we can go top tomorrow if we win … we are also playing Bayern Munich in the champions league. That’s what’s is important to me 

Ever thought of yourself as a selfish person?

4 hours ago, thabucks said:

Do you really think they care if you cannot afford it as there is someone just as much a fan as you out there who can.

39,000 for Wolves. Where are these fans filling in the gaps? Wonder what Palace in the cup will look like. Bologna isn't sold out. The champions **** league and we haven't sold out.

4 hours ago, thabucks said:

It’s horrible for those who have been priced out. But they have to operate on maximising every revenue stream possible due to rules which are set out to cement the elite.

£1m a game in UCL lifting the GA tickets from cat A to a higher level. This won't touch PSR. Won't even dent it.

Why did Heck back down on wheelchair parking prices? That could have raised the club £15k towards PSR - he must be reprimanded.

4 hours ago, thabucks said:

I don’t care much for the politics of modern football which is corrupt but I also understand my place in it which is just a number and someone who can either afford it or not - they don’t care about much else. It’s modern football finances and you either have to accept that and get over it or not but it’s not going away anytime and it’s not some evil plan by Heck & co it’s the inevitability of success. 

Some people are saying this is wrong and isn't workable. Games aren't selling out and younger fans/kids being priced out is a clear nono in any sports business.

And you're saying shut up, it's happening anyway.

I think we know it's happening. Doesn't mean it's the correct move.