Fan Loyalty

[Hobsons Choice]

I'm torn on this subject, because on the one hand, i'm VTID, 35 years a villa fan etc etc. 

Intellectually though, I'm not dumb enough to believe that the loyalty flows in both directions. Players and managers are professionals doing a job for a (very good) living. Owners are CEOs running a business. I know that my loyalty is being exploited for profit, and that does make me on another level quite resentful. That I know I am being exploited makes no difference to how loyal I feel, so yeah, double-chump.

I reconcile this (after a fashion) by telling myself that; a) even if football is just a game, doesn't matter in the scheme of things, and players/owners don't care about me or mine, how it makes me feel, and the community that surrounds it (you good people) ARE real and tangible. The connections we make collectively can make all the difference to how we get through a difficult week; and b) maybe I like football BECAUSE it doesn't matter. Because it is disposable and has no influence on the real world. The world is turning to crap all around us, and football, this loyalty to a collective (if ultimately meaningless) cause, is a means of escape. 

So I guess the point is- loyalty is for chumps, and I have and continue to decide to be that chump.

All hail the chumps!!

[villa4europe]

the thing with loyalty is the belief that you should be rewarded for it when the reality is the club is moving towards the exact opposite, they've already got us, they don't need us, they know we will pay for the tickets, buy the shirts, get the wallpaper and matching bedsheets, nothing the club is doing right now is aimed at us

personally I'm "loyal" in that i watch every game i can, cant attend living abroad now but did my time as a ST holder and going to away games, used to have the emotional attachment to the results that it could ruin my weekend but a mixture of the relegation year, growing out of it and most importantly the big fat steve bruce sized nail in the coffin ended that, he ended my ST stint too, id had enough and walked away until deano came in, dropped to about 50% viewing under gerrard but i also had a baby at that time, of course the love for the club is deep rooted and will always be there, i dont think anyone here is ever going to drift away or support someone else thats just not football

would say as much as anything, for as much as i absolutely love villa - i hate football, i hate the PL, i hate the CL, i hate UEFA, FIFA, hate the England national team, football is absolutely in the gutter, if it wasn't for villa I would walk away

[Jonesy7211]

Loyalty in football is the same now as it is for certain actors or musicians. There's a tribalism attached to what we feel an affinity for, and you get your varying levels of obsession reflected in the fanbase. There are the fans who will buy an album if it's utter bobbins, people watching films just because it's got Tom Cruise doing crazy stunts in it, or people who turn up to the Villa no matter what. Some will buy every kit, some will buy one every few years. I was a season ticket holder during the O'Leary and O'Neill days, but gave it up when I became a father to make sure I spent my weekends with my kids. It doesn't make me less of a fan, I just don't have the same level of obsession because of changing priorities. I will always be Villa though, nothing will ever change that I support the club by getting tickets if possible, buying kits for my kids and passing my love of the club on to them. This is the loyalty I'm sure every fan has.

The last part I think is taken for granted by football clubs. The overseas market will always follow who's successful; the domestic fans will generally pass down their love and should be treated as the mainstay. Without the fans, football clubs are pointless. Over the last couple of decades we've seen this level of loyalty to the fans utterly eroded, certainly in the Premier League.

[Andy_10]

My loyalty to Villa keeps me hanging on by a thread to football in general.

I hate & despise the modern game & everything that it encompasses. And when I use the words hate & despise, thats not hyperbole. I genuinely hate it with a passion only matched with my love for Villa.

The modern game is greedily centred around keeping the status quo as it is because that is what brings in the marketing money for the powers that be. In turn, they allow certain clubs to spend & cheat their way to the top, which then allows those ill gotten gains to become the drawer bridge that keeps ambitious clubs like Villa from being able to compete consistently at the top in the long term.

That Ratcliffe scumbag from ManU summed it all up when he spoke about demanding the "top 6 alliance" (or whatever language he used) be given more power than they currently are given because they bring in the most money for the Premier League. Another circular self fulfilling prophecy for the status quo.

But I love Aston Villa Football Club. They are in my blood & as much as I have tried to break that bond, it's impossible to do so.

And I cannot explain why. 

 

Edited September 11 by Andy_10

[TRO]

On 11/09/2024 at 10:26, Bazmonkey said:

The old Im more of a fan than you statement....regarding loyal

I am 3rd generation Villa fan.....my grandad stood on the terraces after the war...then my dad did through 60' and 70's....i started as 7 year old and watched come up from div 2...i had a season ticket through the 90's....then again during the MON era....as I went back to playing on a sat.  but the draw brought me back....ive been home.....been away and now...my two are Villans....and  we go when we can.

I seen many games from all the stands...Ive been fortunate to have two jobs at the club...one in the shop as an 18 year old and the other one coaching the academy kids and seeing some of them eventually run out for the first team....does that make more loyal than some.....absolutely not.

We all have different connections...neither which make one fan more loyal than another...we all love the Villa...the feel of a win.....is something you cant describe....the losses ruin your day.....now with social media....the constant F5 on fan forums....want to read...write....see whats going on at our great club.

We all have different stories.....but only one brings us together...and thats our loyalty to the Villa whatever it is!!!!

UTV

It's your fault, we need a bigger stadium.

All these fans having kids

[TRO]

On 11/09/2024 at 10:42, GamingDad said:

I've been a Villa fan since I was 5 or 6. I remember it clearly. In the playground and we're all huddled together, my friend asks who I support. Well my Dad is a Baggies fan so I didn't know much else at that age about the other teams, so before I answered I asked him the question. He said Villa, I said me too! The rest is history. 35 years I've been a fan, watching all the live games on TV, buying the shirt when I can, being on the forums and following on social media etc.. I've only ever been to 1 Villa game and that was against Notts County in the cup when I was about 13. Unfortunately as I got older at school non of my friends supported Villa, non of my family did - so I never went to the games. Typically now I'm older and can make the choice of going on my own, money dictates that I can't.

I'd like to think I get as happy when we win and as unhappy when we lose as much as those who go to the games each week. Just because I'm not present in the ground it doesn't diminish my support.. and it really irks me when there are people who get on their high horse about it.

Loyalty is in the heart for me....whether you go or not, is irrelevant.....it's a kind of ideology.

[nick76]

17 minutes ago, TRO said:

Loyalty is in the heart for me...

Bet you’re a romantic devil aren’t you MR TRO…smooth talker….

[Pongo's Socks]

If I play my lad on FIFA, he has to pick another team, because I literally CANNOT play as anyone other than the Villa 

[479Villan]

This is so common in all sports on message boards. You know how everyone gets the "World's #1 Dad" mug? Imagine if people took that seriously and argued over who really was the World's #1 Dad? (It is me by the way, and your Mom is definitely the World's #1 Mom, if you know what I mean).

That is the "most loyal fan" thing writ small.

Everyone is allowed their own devotion and commitment and passion, and frustration or lack thereof. We can kiss the club's ass, go out of our way to kick the club's ass, worship a player, hate a player, whatever. Just, you know, try to avoid turning those emotions into an overreaction. Some people can afford to go to more games than others. Some have bigger memorabilia collections than others. Some buy 12 jerseys a year.

Some scrape the **** by in the world of ours and dream of buying a seat so far from the field that you'd turn your nose up at it. Some think the only proper accessory to wear is the club tie as you eat a 5-course pregame meal.

If Villa makes you happy..or it drives you absolutely **** mental: you are a fan. Who gives a shit about the rest.

 

But, seriously, your Mom is #1.

[ChicagoVillan1983]

I can't go to the games - I'm 5,000 miles away. I watch 80% of the games that are shown here in the US (work often gets in the way - particularly the weekday games).

[Villan_of_oz]

I live on the other side of the planet, 

I didn't have any connection to the club 

I grew up on AFL 

I got pay tv as a 17 year old and got to watch more than the 1 game a week that was on SBS.

The first match I watched, had this claret and blue team playing and they won, I can't remember all the players exactly but it was 96/97 I reckon. Ian Taylor for sure...

All my mates gave me shit for not supporting Liverpool, or Arsenal, or Manure... I didn't care, the more crap I copped the more I grew to love "my" club and the more I hated theirs... 

The 2000 fa cup final was my introduction to true pain, I went to a pub to watch the match.... 3 Aston villa supporters in all to about 150 Chelsea supporters... I just loved the club more though...

Then the lure of MoN's tenure to the limelight, then the proceeding years falling into a deep abyss, then hitting the bottom, then grappling and fighting our way to where we are now...

I watch as much as I can, but kick off times are in the early am for the majority of the season. I watch in my office in the dark so I don't wake the family, I can't cheer or celebrate or scream or bang on the desk because of the time it is... 

It can be quite frustrating at times but then I can quietly get on my keyboard

I love this site!!! I love the banter, the debates, the sharing of ideas and all the madness, I love that I'm part of all of it.... I'm sure I'm quite an annoying person to some

I found this site in 2016 and it had definitely made it easier when I have other Villans to engage with. Without this site I wouldn't enjoy being a fan as much as I do.

I only buy a strip every 5 years or so and I've never been to a match and probably never will, but I try and be a decent fan of the club at the least....

Edited September 13 by Villan_of_oz

[TRO]

14 hours ago, nick76 said:

Bet you’re a romantic devil aren’t you MR TRO…smooth talker….

Paul to you Nick

[TRO]

17 hours ago, nick76 said:

Bet you’re a romantic devil aren’t you MR TRO…smooth talker….

Nick, There is a touch of Romanticism, in all of us, in supporting this great institution.

[TRO]

On 13/09/2024 at 05:37, Villan_of_oz said:

I live on the other side of the planet, 

I didn't have any connection to the club 

I grew up on AFL 

I got pay tv as a 17 year old and got to watch more than the 1 game a week that was on SBS.

The first match I watched, had this claret and blue team playing and they won, I can't remember all the players exactly but it was 96/97 I reckon. Ian Taylor for sure...

All my mates gave me shit for not supporting Liverpool, or Arsenal, or Manure... I didn't care, the more crap I copped the more I grew to love "my" club and the more I hated theirs... 

The 2000 fa cup final was my introduction to true pain, I went to a pub to watch the match.... 3 Aston villa supporters in all to about 150 Chelsea supporters... I just loved the club more though...

Then the lure of MoN's tenure to the limelight, then the proceeding years falling into a deep abyss, then hitting the bottom, then grappling and fighting our way to where we are now...

I watch as much as I can, but kick off times are in the early am for the majority of the season. I watch in my office in the dark so I don't wake the family, I can't cheer or celebrate or scream or bang on the desk because of the time it is... 

It can be quite frustrating at times but then I can quietly get on my keyboard

I love this site!!! I love the banter, the debates, the sharing of ideas and all the madness, I love that I'm part of all of it.... I'm sure I'm quite an annoying person to some

I found this site in 2016 and it had definitely made it easier when I have other Villans to engage with. Without this site I wouldn't enjoy being a fan as much as I do.

I only buy a strip every 5 years or so and I've never been to a match and probably never will, but I try and be a decent fan of the club at the least....

A Good story OZ, and you are as entitled as me to claim Loyalty with my 60 odd years under my belt of attending our colosseum.

I feel for you guys, far away who can't attend, I really do.....and to stay Loyal as you do takes massive resolve. I feel a sense of Pride claiming we have fans so far away, it means a lot.

I remember well my initiation to Villa Park where my Dad perched me on his shoulders, (and I had to duck often from over enthusiastic fans with heavy rattles).....until I was too heavy and posted down the front with the other boys.

I kinda ask myself now,  what was the initial attraction, what got me hooked, was it the football? I didn't really understand it that much at an early age, No it was the atmosphere, the deployment of me in a partisan crowd that cheered every positive move and went deliriously wild when we scored, I was star struck and wanted to go again and again, money permitting....as that was scarce in 1959.

It kind of brings me around to thinking, just how much influence the crowd has on the overall Football Experience, we saw how dull it was during Covid, where you could even hear the pigeons......I wonder if clubs really understand the power of the crowd on their product, they say they do, but do they....You see a full Villa Park with indescribable energy and passion , a Celtic Park or Dortmund's sea of Yellow, This is a huge part of the football experience, and the motivation to the players, but its all free, to football clubs, who take it as an add on, to injecting well paid players on to a pitch, as the deal.

I wonder what would happen if ( hypothetically) we all stayed silent and you could hear a pin drop......I am not suggesting we should, but just asking if football clubs really appreciate the contribution fans themselves create to the football experience.

Maybe it's a paradox they should consider more.

Edited September 14 by TRO

[Villan_of_oz]

4 hours ago, TRO said:

A Good story OZ, and you are as entitled as me to claim Loyalty with my 60 odd years under my belt of attending our colosseum.

I feel for you guys, far away who can't attend, I really do.....and to stay Loyal as you do takes massive resolve.

I remember well my initiation to Villa Park where my Dad perched me on his shoulders, (and I had to duck often from over enthusiastic fans with heavy rattles).....until I was too heavy and posted down the front with the other boys.

I kinda ask myself now,  what was the initial attraction, what got me hooked, was it the football? I didn't really understand it that much at an early age, No it was the atmosphere, the deployment of me in a partisan crowd that cheered every positive move and went deliriously wild when we scored, I was star struck and wanted to go again and again, money permitting....as that was scarce in 1959.

It kind of brings me around to thinking, just how much influence the crowd has on the overall Football Experience, we saw how dull it was during Covid, where you could even hear the pigeons......I wonder if clubs really understand the power of the crowd on their product, they say they do, but do they....You see a full Villa Park with indescribable energy and passion , a Celtic Park or Dortmund's sea of Yellow, This is a huge part of the football experience, and the motivation to the players, but its all free, to football clubs, who take it as an add on, to injecting well paid players on to a pitch, as the deal.

I wonder what would happen if ( hypothetically) we all stayed silent and you could hear a pin drop......I am not suggesting we should, but just asking if football clubs really appreciate the contribution fans themselves create to the football experience.

Maybe it's a paradox they should consider more.

This is a very insightful comment mate, no fans no product, but they won't have to seriously consider it for a while yet. 

What will the rest of the world look like when such a time comes. For me football is a good example of the direction society is headed in general. 

As long as enough people have enough money no one is going to worry about it until it's probably too late...

Edited September 13 by Villan_of_oz

[Stevo985]

On 11/09/2024 at 07:00, CVByrne said:

Great post.

It's why I call this group of season ticket holders and regular match day goers as in a bubble. They want the club to grow income like the rest of us but would prefer tickets to stay cheap and it doesn't matter how big the season ticket waiting list gets. Doesn't matter how hard it is to get tickets. Doesn't matter where our average ticket price sits Vs other European Premier League clubs. Their pocket is the most important thing. 

 

I’m replying to this in here so as to keep the Heck thread on topic as this relates more to fan loyalty than anything else
 

But this post is remarkable. The statement that the fans that have season tickets and regularly go to matches are “in a bubble” is absolutely astonishing. 
 

The fans that out hundreds or thousands of pounds a season into ticket purchases are the ones living in the bubble?

I’d suggest the fans who never go to Villa park and don’t ever have to buy tickets yet are advocating ticket prices go as high as the demand will allow are living in more of a bubble if I’m honest. What money are you putting into the club?
 

No fans who regularly go are expecting tickets never to go up. No fans are expecting champions league tickets to be cheap. Those fans are aware that being at the top table costs more, that doesn’t mean they can’t be disgusted by some of financial decisions being made at the club. 
 

To suggest those fans are living in a bubble when they are the ones actually paying those prices, compared to others who watch from afar and don’t care about the price of tickets being too high because they don’t have to buy them is frankly insulting

Edited September 13 by Stevo985

[VillaChris]

9 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I’m replying to this in here so as to keep the Heck thread on topic as this relates more to fan loyalty than anything else
 

But this post is remarkable. The statement that the fans that have season tickets and regularly go to matches are “in a bubble” is absolutely astonishing. 
 

The fans that out hundreds or thousands of pounds a season into ticket purchases are the ones living in the bubble?

I’d suggest the fans who never go to Villa park and don’t ever have to buy tickets yet are advocating ticket prices go as high as the demand will allow are living in more of a bubble if I’m honest. What money are you putting into the club?
 

No fans who regularly go are expecting tickets never to go up. No fans are expecting champions league tickets to be cheap. Those fans are aware that being at the top table costs more, that doesn’t mean they can’t be disgusted by some of financial decisions being made at the club. 
 

To suggest those fans are living in a bubble when they are the ones actually paying those prices, compared to others who watch from afar and don’t care about the price of tickets being too high is frankly insulting

In a nutshell.

Fans have every right to ask why we're charging £80 + for all four CLs games when Newcastle kept their prices pretty much half that last season. They also had one less home game so could've used that as an argument to charge more.

Really enjoyed the points raised in this thread but there's another to add to the mix. I'd genuinely be interested what would happen if post Emery we dip again and have a few seasons back in the bottom half, if that can happen to Everton post Ancelotti then it can happen to us if we make another Gerrard style managerial appointment. In a few years the spine of Emi-Konsa-Pau-SJM-Ollie will all be in their 30s so will need to be replaced.

Of course generally our attendances have help up brilliantly since promotion but I think that was more the buzz of getting back in the prem and the feeling of building up from the bottom. Now we're established and on the verge of hopefully some success it feels a bigger fall e.g. going from 2008-10 to bottom six pretty quickly.

Ticket prices were also still very reasonable in the 2019-21, not the case now.

This is where I'm generally uncomfortable with the unapologetic exploitation of every matchday revenue stream as there's no law saying we can't have a terrible season in the near future and we've seen before 5k or so quickly drop off if that happens from season tickets and general sale.

I love him as a poster but I can remember @OutByEaster? saying two months ago he reckoned no home match would make general sale this season. Just looking at Everton now and you can get £44-50 quid singles in most parts of the ground.

[OutByEaster?]

Fan loyalty is a strange thing.

I grew up poor and without a father at home, I went to Villa Park about a half dozen times before I was twenty, got my first season ticket at thirty. I don't think you could look at me today with twenty years of that behind me, and the choices I make now in how I spend my time and say I'm not a loyal fan - but when I think about it, I don't think I'm any more loyal than the eleven year old me drawing pictures of Tony Morley at the kitchen table, or the fifteen year old me walking three miles home from Villa Park in the dark on my own after a reserve game, I don't think my season ticket makes me more loyal than the young man that ran a mile from the train station to make it home from work just in time for the kick off of the 1996 League Cup final.

I'm not sure that having a season ticket has made me more of less loyal, I don't think it's changed me much at all, but I think it's probably fair to say that as an expression of that loyalty, a season ticket is a pretty good guide. I don't think you need a season ticket to be considered loyal, but I also think that if you have one, it's a fair indication that you are - very few people have a season ticket by accident.

Loyalty in itself is of course a quality that's impossible to measure - it's not about pounds and pence, that much is for sure.

Sat at the club meeting this week, I couldn't help but feel that one end of the table was there because they were in business and the other because they were in love - it's no wonder we sometimes struggle to communicate or that sometimes people forget there are other things that people invest in this club than money.

[markavfc40]

On 11/09/2024 at 07:00, CVByrne said:

It's why I call this group of season ticket holders and regular match day goers as in a bubble. They want the club to grow income like the rest of us but would prefer tickets to stay cheap and it doesn't matter how big the season ticket waiting list gets. Doesn't matter how hard it is to get tickets. Doesn't matter where our average ticket price sits Vs other European Premier League clubs. Their pocket is the most important thing. 

It's an interesting viewpoint and I've seen a few interesting ones lately regarding season ticket holders including that that they should be grateful and stop hogging tickets. 

I've been a season ticket holder continually since 1988. Been in Villa Park way more times when surrounded by, and looking at, empty seats than I have when it has been a sell out. Watched us serve up way more shit than I have shine. Been to plenty of games where I couldn't have given my ticket away. What kind of bubble was I living in during those times exactly? certainly not the one where I should be grateful or the one where I was hogging tickets. The seasons of struggle under Lerner where we circled the drain and finally dropped I was actually accused of being part of the problem by buying tickets and going so I guess that was a different bubble to the one season ticket holders are now in.

To address the accusation of the bubble I and other season ticket holders now apparently live in of wanting the club to grow and wanting tickets to stay cheap I'd suggest that bubble well and truly burst some time ago as season ticket prices have gone up 30%+, and more in some areas of the ground, over the last couple of years. We now sit sixth in terms of cost of a season ticket in the Premier League so I'd suggest for a club whose average league finish since returning to the premier league five years ago is 11th we're more than paying our way whether season ticket holders or not. 

You might also be surprised to know that no one is more desperate to see the club do well than those who sat through and endured the years of shit, so given we still paid our way then, when many didn't, we are obviously more than happy to pay our way now. What many aren't happy about, and what no fan should be happy about, is having their pants pulled down and being exploited after a very, very brief period of upturn.

[limpid]

13 hours ago, VillaChris said:

I love him as a poster but I can remember @OutByEaster? saying two months ago he reckoned no home match would make general sale this season. Just looking at Everton now and you can get £44-50 quid singles in most parts of the ground.

These are likely returned season tickets. There will always be some of those.