one_ian_taylor Posted September 2 VT Supporter Share Posted September 2 3 hours ago, mjmooney said: Chicken and egg. Are Murdoch, Musk, etc. turning the proles away from their natural socialist instincts? Or are they simply exploiting an already existing tendency for their own benefit? I guess my point is that people that are anti intellectual are found across society. The tendency may be better explained by psychological differences, even if social factors will play a big role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 3 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said: The definition of class has changed radically since I was a lad. It used to be defined by what your dad did for a living: manual, manual skilled, supervisory and managerial etc. These days economists define it by the amount of discretionary spending people have left after they've paid their bills. Away from the social sciences, I think things like accent, education, attitudes, values and the range of culture people engage with, as how we tend to see class. Since DEI has taken root as the way social relations and privilege are assessed, class as the basis for the structure of society has become defunct. Marx thought that each class pirsued its own interests, and as things stand, as to which class is seen to benefit from recent and present political priorities, it would seem that the middle-class are still dominant when it comes to pirsuing their own interests. As ever it was! Outside of accent (I understand what you're saying, but I don't think it rings true), I'd agree here. Would add the area you grew up in/household income at that time as being a pretty big driver towards perceived class as well. Class divide has given way to income divide these days, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 . I know my place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 5 hours ago, Wainy316 said: World class It got no likes 6 years ago son. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nor-Cal Villan Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 9 hours ago, one_ian_taylor said: I don't think anti intellectualism is a working class thing. I suspect that if you looked at anti-intellectual tendencies across the UK, you would see a reasonable overlap with populist tendencies, much of which have been pushed by figures which are as establishment and far from working class as you can get. It is here Seen it with my family my entire life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 9 hours ago, mjmooney said: Chicken and egg. Are Murdoch, Musk, etc. turning the proles away from their natural socialist instincts? Or are they simply exploiting an already existing tendency for their own benefit? The remarkable thing about the people who voted for the AfD in Thuringia Germany is that a high proportion of them were young. You may recall the American TV series called Family Ties (1982), starring Michael J Fox, which was a comedy about the youth moving to the Right politically, as they rejected their hippie parents' liberal values. So it could happen here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 22 hours ago, Xela said: What is the definition of middle class? Don't need the never never to buy a beamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 1 minute ago, villa4europe said: Don't need the never never to buy a beamer beamer middle class? Hmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 2 minutes ago, Xela said: beamer middle class? Hmmmm Showing my working class roots Posh words removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nor-Cal Villan Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 13 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Don't need the never never to buy a beamer Another new one to me. Thanks Google 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted September 2 VT Supporter Share Posted September 2 (edited) 23 hours ago, mjmooney said: I suspect that Americans define middle class rather differently than Brits. Oh, so complicated, really. I think more Americans, especially from trade union backgrounds, do openly embrace the term as a sort thing in itself because trade unions were/are seen as a step-ladder to the middle-class and to a more comfortable life than their working-class parents. But Britain really invented the middle-class in fact if not in terminology, as I understand it. I think Britons' historical lack of fluency or comfort with the term itself is simply down to Britain's far deeper traditional Old World classism, but lack of comfort with the term is absolutely not the same thing as any lack of love for middle-classness itself. The love of defending (and satirising and whinging about) middle-classness in my mind is one of Britain's greatest export treasures. The world would truly be the lesser without it, and it would all be ruined if English people, for example, actually knew this, which they don't. In America, ironically, we're more willing to say it's great to be "middle-class," but I think we've forgotten how to protect middle-classness itself, if that makes sense? It's very disturbing, too. Trumpism is almost by definition the toxic, humourless, violent antithesis of middle-classes. Edited September 2 by Marka Ragnos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted September 2 VT Supporter Share Posted September 2 11 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said: Oh, so complicated, really. I think more Americans, especially from trade union backgrounds, do openly embrace the term as a sort thing in itself because trade unions were/are seen as a step-ladder to the middle-class and to a more comfortable life than their working-class parents. But Britain really invented the middle-class in fact if not in terminology, as I understand it. I think Britons' historical lack of fluency or comfort with the term itself is simply down to Britain's far deeper traditional Old World classism, but lack of comfort with the term is absolutely not the same thing as any lack of love for middle-classness itself. The love of defending (and satirising and whinging about) middle-classness in my mind is one of Britain's greatest export treasures. The world would truly be the lesser without it, and it would all be ruined if English people, for example, actually knew this, which they don't. In America, ironically, we're more willing to say it's great to be "middle-class," but I think we've forgotten how to protect middle-classness itself, if that makes sense? It's very disturbing, too. Trumpism is almost by definition the toxic, humourless, violent antithesis of middle-classes. I'm not sure I'm really grasping this. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 3 hours ago, rodders0223 said: It got no likes 6 years ago son. I should have known from 4 pages some other idiot would have already said that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 Economy class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 Business class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted September 2 VT Supporter Share Posted September 2 (edited) 5 minutes ago, mjmooney said: I'm not sure I'm really grasping this. Haha. Less wordy version: Americans love to talk about being middle class while unconsciously nurturing its destruction, whilst Britons do almost the opposite. Edited September 2 by Marka Ragnos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted September 2 VT Supporter Share Posted September 2 Just now, Marka Ragnos said: Haha. Short version: Americans love to talk about being middle class while unconsciously nurturing its destruction, whilst Britons do almost the opposite. Hmmm. If you say so... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nor-Cal Villan Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 50 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said: Haha. Less wordy version: Americans love to talk about being middle class while unconsciously nurturing its destruction, whilst Britons do almost the opposite. It’s a wonder that we still know how to breathe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 The "Who Cares" class. Doesn't matter what class one is. They all have their fair share of words removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 9 hours ago, Wainy316 said: Economy class *ahem* On 17/05/2018 at 21:15, snowychap said: (just can't help yourself can you ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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