Ratings & Reactions: Villa v Arsenal

[Leeroy]

FWIW, even though I'm annoyed with the Arsenal fan comments we do need to keep possession better against the top teams (and even the midtable teams). 49% against West Ham and 38% against Arsenal isn't enough of the ball and we have to improve this.

 

We should dominate possession against the likes of Leicester, Everton, Forest etc but against the top sides and even the midtable sides we simply have to be better at keeping hold of the ball. We did it away at Arsenal last season and also at home to Man City where we had roughly as much possession as both teams so we know this team is capable of keeping hold of the ball for long periods. 

Edited August 25 by Leeroy

[mykeyb]

32 minutes ago, Leeroy said:

From Arsenal Mania: 

Why do you think we looked better once we scored? What do you think happened to the game there?

The answer to the above question is one of the key points that this Arsenal team is trying to solve again. How it solved our problems last season. Scoring early opens up the game… that’s the keys to the kingdom in the PL.

But, yes. On the mid to low block situation and how we manage it, it’s still not good enough. I think TP5’s time as a starter comes to and end with the arrival of Merino, but also yes, we need more central access and efficiency much earlier on in games.

The key with teams like Villa, who design their entire philosophy around sitting deep and looking only for counterattacks. Is that you must hit them hard and early. Had we scored in the 10th minute yesterday, we would have destroyed them. Easily a 6/7-0 win I would say.

That’s the big thing to fix, on the training ground and hopefully in this market as well.

 

................................................................................................................

 

There are a couple of serious mentalists on their forum. I genuinely can't even begin to unpick this nonsense but the bit in bold is the most uneducated thing I've ever seen written about us. So we sit deep and counter attack, that's our style according to this genius, yet for virtually all of last season everyone kept talking about our high line and how our defence pushes really high up the pitch. Has this guy been in a coma and never watched us play, moronic comment. He's actually their moderator too.

 

We might have played a bit deeper yesterday in a mid block but that's because Arsenal have spent far more on their squad than we have. Net spend for them since summer 2020 is £491m, ours is £219m, we have to sell key players to invest like Luiz and Grealish, Arsenal don't. If we spent exactly the same amount on our team as they have and it was a level playing field the match would be completely different. The lack of respect for us is absolutely remarkable given we sh*t on them twice last season.

 

I'm classy enough to admit they have a brilliant side backed up by huge spending in the last few years in every area of the pitch but their fans really are gobshites.

Christ on a bike, that Arsenal fan is really deluded if he thinks they could have beat 6 or 7 nil if they scored early. On another day we win that game 2 nil and no one would suggest it was an injustice.

They had 3 chances and scored with two of them

[allani]

17 hours ago, Villastine said:

Love how even us Villains see it differently. I thought the ref was great.  My bro wanted to wait for him after the game . He's obviously voted on here (hello Joel!)

But yeah, finishing and keeping determined the result.  Ollie should be raging with himself and Emi should be also. 

Rogers was immense. 

Agreed I voted the referring performance as very good.  Thought they were pretty consistent in the decision making throughout the game.

[sheepyvillian]

55 minutes ago, Leeroy said:

From Arsenal Mania: 

Why do you think we looked better once we scored? What do you think happened to the game there?

The answer to the above question is one of the key points that this Arsenal team is trying to solve again. How it solved our problems last season. Scoring early opens up the game… that’s the keys to the kingdom in the PL.

But, yes. On the mid to low block situation and how we manage it, it’s still not good enough. I think TP5’s time as a starter comes to and end with the arrival of Merino, but also yes, we need more central access and efficiency much earlier on in games.

The key with teams like Villa, who design their entire philosophy around sitting deep and looking only for counterattacks. Is that you must hit them hard and early. Had we scored in the 10th minute yesterday, we would have destroyed them. Easily a 6/7-0 win I would say.

That’s the big thing to fix, on the training ground and hopefully in this market as well.

 

................................................................................................................

 

There are a couple of serious mentalists on their forum. I genuinely can't even begin to unpick this nonsense but the bit in bold is the most uneducated thing I've ever seen written about us. So we sit deep and counter attack, that's our style according to this genius, yet for virtually all of last season everyone kept talking about our high line and how our defence pushes really high up the pitch. Has this guy been in a coma and never watched us play, moronic comment. He's actually their moderator too.

 

We might have played a bit deeper yesterday in a mid block but that's because Arsenal have spent far more on their squad than we have. Net spend for them since summer 2020 is £491m, ours is £219m, we have to sell key players to invest like Luiz and Grealish, Arsenal don't. If we spent exactly the same amount on our team as they have and it was a level playing field the match would be completely different. The lack of respect for us is absolutely remarkable given we sh*t on them twice last season.

 

I'm classy enough to admit they have a brilliant side backed up by huge spending in the last few years in every area of the pitch but their fans really are gobshites.

That's why every other London club hates Arsenal with a passion. I always preferred watching Spurs to Arsenal back in the day. Now, I prefer watching neither. 

[sheepyvillian]

I'll say this, as much as we befuddled Arsenal in that first - half, I'm not too keen on us being overly cautious at VP. 

[allani]

7 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

Watkins. The lack of a pre-season I’ve already spoken about in his own thread (to which is inexcusable in my opinion), but the performances both this week and last week against West Ham have been nothing short of embarrassing. And he will be embarrassed. The world was watching this week, maybe not last.

The blame lies directly with him and almost him entirely Im afraid. And that’s coming from someone who loves him. He was a complete disappointment yesterday and I hope he works considerably harder this week on the training pitch to make sure he’s firing next week. We need 3 points at Leicester.

I agree with the rest of your post entirely.  On this bit I kind of disagree.  Ollie tends to beat himself a bit too quickly and he can then go on runs of not scoring because he starts trying too hard and thinking about things rather than just doing what he does.  I get what you are saying but I want him to completely banish yesterday from his brain and just think about what he did last season.  We need one of those Men In Black memory wiper devices that erases Arsenal from his mind.

[OutByEaster?]

12 hours ago, bobzy said:

Partey wasn’t booked, was he? Am I missing something?

Good lord! He wasn't!

Must have been when Gabriel was booked.

He should have been booked.

Three or four times.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Good lord! He wasn't!

Must have been when Gabriel was booked.

He should have been booked.

Three or four times.

Many of them should have been….that’s why I don’t see how the ref was ok.

Oliver is crafty, he only gives us what we deserve, when it’s too late, and the game is gone.I don’t think he is ever fair to us.

[TDR V2]

Just saw the match gallery, no pics from outside the ground for some reason

[6065_Villa]

13 hours ago, TRO said:

Many of them should have been….that’s why I don’t see how the ref was ok.

Oliver is crafty, he only gives us what we deserve, when it’s too late, and the game is gone.I don’t think he is ever fair to us.

Thought he did well overall didn't realise Party wasn't booked as he should have been.

Agree that previously he has done us over, might be a Newcastle thing?.

[DJ_Villain]

On 25/08/2024 at 17:19, sheepyvillian said:

That's why every other London club hates Arsenal with a passion. I always preferred watching Spurs to Arsenal back in the day. Now, I prefer watching neither. 

I’ve found that as much as I dislike both clubs… Spurs are supported by people who actually live in London and go to games…

Arsenal are mostly followed by Nigerians, Ghanaians, Ugandans and Kenyans who couldn’t find the Emirates stadium on a map of North London… 

[PieFacE]

As a general rule of supporting Villa, I've always tried to not let results impact my general mood all that much. Before Unai we've been so bad for so long that I've kinda just become numb to defeats, until now.

Had we got battered by Arsenal then I probably wouldn't be giving it much thought, but i'm still a bit gutted Ollie didn't take his chances. A different day we win this game somewhat comfortably. 

[TRO]

8 hours ago, PieFacE said:

As a general rule of supporting Villa, I've always tried to not let results impact my general mood all that much. Before Unai we've been so bad for so long that I've kinda just become numb to defeats, until now.

Had we got battered by Arsenal then I probably wouldn't be giving it much thought, but i'm still a bit gutted Ollie didn't take his chances. A different day we win this game somewhat comfortably. 

We had the better chances, we usually do, so I am surprised at the claims for creativity.....what we want to do is control games, and that is our objective, but with a low possession stat, It suggests we are not there yet.

Their 3 at the back, basically controlled the game, with very little challenge, on the occasion we did, Bailey won the ball and Ollie should have scored.

I am not saying possession Stats are everything.....but we need to improve our general rating particularly readying ourselves for the Champions League too.

Edited August 27 by TRO

[PieFacE]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

We had the better chances, we usually do, so I am surprised at the claims for creativity.....what we want to do is control games, and that is our objective, but with a low possession stat, It suggests we are not there yet.

Their 3 at the back, basically controlled the game, with very little challenge, on the occasion we did, Bailey won the ball and Ollie should have scored.

I am not saying possession Stats are everything.....but we need to improve our general rating particularly in the Champions League too.

Don't disagree but we were clearly letting them have the ball in those situations and sitting quite compact so they couldn't get through us centrally. It was part of the game plan to hit them on transition and to take our chances when we got them. 

We're not the finished article yet but any stretch, but we played well considering that.

[TRO]

11 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

Don't disagree but we were clearly letting them have the ball in those situations and sitting quite compact so they couldn't get through us centrally. It was part of the game plan to hit them on transition and to take our chances when we got them. 

We're not the finished article yet but any stretch, but we played well considering that.

Of course we played well in many aspects of the game......and looking beyond the obvious misses, it's kind of interesting to see if the goals conceded could have been avoided......In which case a 0-0 would have been seen as good control.

I just feel watching our games, as well as we play, conceding is never a surprise to me and a clean sheet is a surprise.....I think to progress further, that needs to change.

[tinker]

We invite them to press and they leave space that allows us counter. We don't return the favour by pressing their defenders, we don't want to leave them space to play into. Any other day and.we would have been 2 up before they scored, our chances were clearer than the goals they scored. 99 at of a 100 ollie scores 2 goals, and Ramsey a 3rd. We had other chances that were as good as there's that they converted as well, Rogers for one.

We have also lost Doug who held onto the ball more than Tielemans. Despite all this Arsenal pressed us hard and got their reward but only because we fluffed our lines when finishing. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, tinker said:

We invite them to press and they leave space that allows us counter. We don't return the favour by pressing their defenders, we don't want to leave them space to play into. Any other day and.we would have been 2 up before they scored, our chances were clearer than the goals they scored. 99 at of a 100 ollie scores 2 goals, and Ramsey a 3rd. We had other chances that were as good as there's that they converted as well, Rogers for one.

We have also lost Doug who held onto the ball more than Tielemans. Despite all this Arsenal pressed us hard and got their reward but only because we fluffed our lines when finishing. 

You see it seems to me, that slack is created for defending like someone wrote " we can't cut out every cross" which to my mind no one has suggested.....but we struggle to create slack for a guy who scored for us over 20 goals and a boat load of assists.

I am not saying, that did not cause the game to change, because it did shove the initiative in to their hands...granted.

My main point is this, and so I am not having a go, I will include Spurs in this...

If Aston Villa and Spurs want to catch the top 3 of last season....they cannot concede over 60 goals, end of.

Now how they do that is anyone's debate.....We can talk tactics, personnel, mental intrinsics, what ever.....I am not suggesting how we cure it......just the fact, that we concede too many, to be as ambitious as some think we can be.

We have come a long way, and in some area's much quicker than we thought, but area's I have mentioned, we are still some way of the elite.

I think maybe another 2 seasons, and we will be there.

[TRO]

On 25/08/2024 at 16:32, Leeroy said:

FWIW, even though I'm annoyed with the Arsenal fan comments we do need to keep possession better against the top teams (and even the midtable teams). 49% against West Ham and 38% against Arsenal isn't enough of the ball and we have to improve this.

 

We should dominate possession against the likes of Leicester, Everton, Forest etc but against the top sides and even the midtable sides we simply have to be better at keeping hold of the ball. We did it away at Arsenal last season and also at home to Man City where we had roughly as much possession as both teams so we know this team is capable of keeping hold of the ball for long periods. 

I agree.

I think this is an element of our WIP.....I think Unai is well aware of it and he doesn't need us to tell him.

I still think as this season progresses, and lot of learning will be done from the younger players, and that will improve....we have to remind ourselves West Ham away, and Arsenal at home, is no easy baptism to the league programme....other teams above us, have had  easier fixtures.

We have to ensure, we do the right things against the teams, we should be beating....and keep the motivation.

The fact we are playing so well against teams like Arsenal, and how relieved they are when they beat us, is testimony to how far we have come....We simply cannot expect to beat these top 2 just yet, every time we meet.

Arsenal are damn good side, and probably their most redeeming feature is, even when they are losing,or have lost the initiative they are still in the game.....their resilience is impressive. We have a way to go to emulate that, but Unai will gets us there.

It is not often so much satisfaction can come from a loss.....but this game did have that.

Edited August 27 by TRO

[tinker]

27 minutes ago, TRO said:

You see it seems to me, that slack is created for defending like someone wrote " we can't cut out every cross" which to my mind no one has suggested.....but we struggle to create slack for a guy who scored for us over 20 goals and a boat load of assists.

I am not saying, that did not cause the game to change, because it did shove the initiative in to their hands...granted.

My main point is this, and so I am not having a go, I will include Spurs in this...

If Aston Villa and Spurs want to catch the top 3 of last season....they cannot concede over 60 goals, end of.

Now how they do that is anyone's debate.....We can talk tactics, personnel, mental intrinsics, what ever.....I am not suggesting how we cure it......just the fact, that we concede too many, to be as ambitious as some think we can be.

We have come a long way, and in some area's much quicker than we thought, but area's I have mentioned, we are still some way of the elite.

I think maybe another 2 seasons, and we will be there.

I agree........I think we may need better players in certain areas.... in defense. There's been a common theme to the goals we have conceded this season. We have, what looks like to me, an upgrade on our left side and hopefully we will have an upgrade on our right side as well once the transfer window closes.

I don't like throwing players under the bus, especially good players, but when you get to the very top you need the very best and that's where we are behind the top 3 imo.

If we can bridge that gap using a first 11 to play against the very best and then mix in the good but not the best players when we play easier opponents then we have a team that can compete at the very top. I don't think we are too far away. 

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, tinker said:

I agree........I think we may need better players in certain areas.... in defense. There's been a common theme to the goals we have conceded this season. We have, what looks like to me, an upgrade on our left side and hopefully we will have an upgrade on our right side as well once the transfer window closes.

I don't like throwing players under the bus, especially good players, but when you get to the very top you need the very best and that's where we are behind the top 3 imo.

If we can bridge that gap using a first 11 to play against the very best and then mix in the good but not the best players when we play easier opponents then we have a team that can compete at the very top. I don't think we are too far away. 

 

9 minutes ago, tinker said:

I agree........I think we may need better players in certain areas.... in defense. There's been a common theme to the goals we have conceded this season. We have, what looks like to me, an upgrade on our left side and hopefully we will have an upgrade on our right side as well once the transfer window closes.

I don't like throwing players under the bus, especially good players, but when you get to the very top you need the very best and that's where we are behind the top 3 imo.

If we can bridge that gap using a first 11 to play against the very best and then mix in the good but not the best players when we play easier opponents then we have a team that can compete at the very top. I don't think we are too far away. 

We are doing seriously well.....Some of our stuff on Saturday, was top drawer.

I am merely pointing out things that I see, to position us as title contenders.....I know we are a couple of seasons away from that, but unlike some teams, I think our people will push us to do it.

My observations are not meant to be criticisms, that would be ungrateful for what is essentially and potentially one of the best teams in the last 25-30 years.

The potential of this team, is incredible, but that should not stop grow-ups from pointing out how we can improve.

PS I think Gertruida ( fingers crossed) will make a significant improvement, and ally some of my critique.

pps after finishing 4th and a semi final of a European competition, it would be folly to throw anyone of our players under the bus, but that is entirely different to constructive critique.

Edited August 27 by TRO