Ratings & Reactions: West Ham v Villa

[TRO]

15 hours ago, allani said:

I don't know that they do know they are doing a poor job.  But I think they are desperate to be able to claim that they are doing a great job.  It reminds me of a firm that I worked at many years ago who would routinely churn out stats suggesting that they were achieving Customer Satisfaction values of +90%.  I remember asking them what the point of the CS surveys were - was it to improve the way we engaged with customers (and how happy they really were) or was it to get great CS stats - because that would have a dramatic impact on the way that you write the CS survey questions.  I think the issue the referees have is that a huge percentage of their "customers" think that they are only interested in showing how many times they make the right decision (even when many people think that decision is wrong!) rather than about improving their decisions and / or improving the definition of the laws so that they are more precise / easier to apply.

I might be wrong here.....but I feel the level of tolerance and acceptance from the general crowd, towards officiating mistakes was more accepting years ago than today. I think that is a reflection of Society in general.

It's like everything has to be perfect now....no room for error, even when the game is played at a frenetic pace.

I also think when your team is constantly committed to attack,  and move the ball around quickly, you are more likely to get 50/50 decisions.

I noticed this with Man U years ago, always getting marginal decisions, but they was always attacking with pace and playing "on the edge"

I do think the clever teams can control the narrative to a degree, and will get their unfair share of decisions, by being pitch savvy.

 

Edited August 19 by TRO

[TRO]

15 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

It must be quite rare for 3 subs to combine to score a winner. Our squad strength is encouraging.

I said to my wife, when the sub question was looming, he will bring 3 on together.

[allani]

32 minutes ago, TRO said:

maybe, maybe not....but I have seen similar ones given.

The cash one, at the other end, everyone would have been screaming he touched the ball first....and in my opinion, it wouldn't have been given.

I know some folk cite the touching the ball first as the determining factor, and others don't......but I think the majority of the time, it stands, so you have to have a pretty compelling case for it to be ignored and other criteria to trump it.

Soucek Imo was as committed as Cash to the tangling of legs, so a " coming together " opinion, could easily be applied on another day.

I seem to vaguely remember one like this before, with us, and the defender got the faintest of touches, and our penalty call was denied.

It doesn't matter now, with the outcome, but that could easily have marred what was a very good display from us.

But in the same way that defenders now stick both arms behind their back when trying to close down crosses - so that they minimise any risk of their hand being adjudged to being away from the body or in an unnatural position.  I think Cash has to be smarter and realise that the chance of him conceding a penalty far outstrips the chance of him getting a big touch on the ball.  With the angles of travel (players and ball), etc - it's going to take a lot to score from there.  It was clumsy.  Don't force the officials into making a decision that might or might not go your way.  Especially when you are away from home.

[allani]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I said to my wife, when the sub question was looming, he will bring 3 on together.

Last four touches of the ball all with the left foot too...

[TRO]

1 minute ago, allani said:

Last four touches of the ball all with the left foot too...

yeah amazing.

I could wax lyrical about that performance in so many ways.....but consistency has to be the overall barometer.

There was so many area's to dig for positives, I feel like an archaeologist after that.

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, allani said:

But in the same way that defenders now stick both arms behind their back when trying to close down crosses - so that they minimise any risk of their hand being adjudged to being away from the body or in an unnatural position.  I think Cash has to be smarter and realise that the chance of him conceding a penalty far outstrips the chance of him getting a big touch on the ball.  With the angles of travel (players and ball), etc - it's going to take a lot to score from there.  It was clumsy.  Don't force the officials into making a decision that might or might not go your way.  Especially when you are away from home.

I agree, it was clumsy.....but I was brought up, to believe penalties, have to be a foul which is edging towards intentional....clumsy is not always intentional.

[allani]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

yeah amazing.

I could wax lyrical about that performance in so many ways.....but consistency has to be the overall barometer.

There was so many area's to dig for positives, I feel like an archaeologist after that.

Dare I say it (given how many times you and I have mentioned this word over the last however many years) but the thing that stuck out for me was.... balance.  We looked as good winning the ball back as we did when we had the ball.  We looked as comfortable defending our box as we looked threatening when attacking their box.

Arsenal are going to be tough next weekend for sure - and West Ham to an extent played into our hands - but lots to be encouraged by.

Edited August 19 by allani

[Vive_La_Villa]

20 minutes ago, TRO said:

yeah amazing.

I could wax lyrical about that performance in so many ways.....but consistency has to be the overall barometer.

There was so many area's to dig for positives, I feel like an archaeologist after that.

Many positives but the negatives are we need to take our chances and it could have cost us in the end with the chances they had.  We should have been 3-4 up before the penalty. 
 

However if a team is creating big chances against a traditionally defensive team it's a very good sign. 

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, allani said:

Dare I say it (given how many times you and I have mentioned this word over the last however many years) but the thing that stuck out for me was.... balance.  We looked as good winning the ball back as we did when we had the ball.  We looked as comfortable defending our box as we looked threatening when attacking their box.

Arsenal are going to be tough next weekend for sure - and West Ham to an extent played into our hands - but lots to be encouraged by.

Balance is so Key to all what we do, and I agree, its paramount

Another key aspect for me, and I saw it in abundance on Saturday, was the Camaraderie....This group of fairly young boys, look so much together.....and I think it can have a huge, huge impact on Team Spirit.

Of Course, we need a few steadying heads....but the effervescence, urgency and intensity, was really evident.....they all looked like they was on a stag trip abroad, they excitement was moving, so pleased for them.

I will always call a game out, if there are things to be called out....but that was inspiring, in so many ways.

I think the blend, Unai is concocting, is scary....He seems so in tune, with his own vision, of what he wants us to look like, it's almost overwhelming.

For me, I think West Ham have come in for some unfair criticism, because, I think they will have an impressive season and Lopetegui with prove to be a good manager.

I still gain so much Kudos (pardon the pun), from going away to a most difficult opponent and getting a maximum result...They will take points of some good teams this season, mark my words.

[TRO]

16 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Many positives but the negatives are we need to take our chances and it could have cost us in the end with the chances they had.  We should have been 3-4 up before the penalty. 
 

However if a team is creating big chances against a traditionally defensive team it's a very good sign. 

yep.

That could be a bit of ring rust....The chances we created, were very encouraging.

That has made me feel that upbeat, I keep formulating first 11's and moving them around, such is the form, from just about everyone.

I couldn't call a first 11 now, without being unfair to someone....but that's the sign, of a very good side.

Patience from the players will be required.

it's great to get a result like that, and imo that comes first, but the performance had me purring.

PS Onana with his Martin Laursen header.....poor Gold.

pps congrats to the unsung hero Austin Macphee.

Edited August 19 by TRO

[Lochheads twin]

Just watched the Sky 30 minute highlights of the game. One thing I did not appreciate before seeing them was how much work went into the winning goal.

We know how good the final 3 touches were but it was a typical Unai/ Villa goal with the move starting about about a dozen touches further back on the other side of the pitch when Jaden won the ball back. They get the ball under control then work it back across the pitch. Probably 6 players involved. 

Great team work all round and a lovely goal.

Happy days!
 

 

[RichW]

Still buzzing from our performance this game. Just reminded us of how good we are under Emery. There will be a game soon where we put a team to the sword and score 4 or 5 once the rustiness is gone. 

[duke313]

Should there be any concern that we had one of the highest xGA (goals against) in GW1?  Only Ipswich was higher.  An indication we perhaps could do with another defender through the door?

[Alakagom]

1 hour ago, duke313 said:

Should there be any concern that we had one of the highest xGA (goals against) in GW1?  Only Ipswich was higher.  An indication we perhaps could do with another defender through the door?

I meanthe  pen is 0.80 alone and that was pretty contentious decision, and Soucek's last minute chance actually had an XG of 0.93. Which tells you XG is not so perfect cause while the position to score was indeed reflective, the actual chance was no way that easy. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

4 hours ago, duke313 said:

Should there be any concern that we had one of the highest xGA (goals against) in GW1?  Only Ipswich was higher.  An indication we perhaps could do with another defender through the door?

To be fair I think we had one of the hardest fixtures in week 1 too. I'd expect West Ham to always create chances at home.

Having said that how on earth is our xG lower with the amount of big chances we had. Bailey missed an open goal.

Edited August 20 by Vive_La_Villa

[The_Steve]

VAR said it was “minimal contact” and no pen 

[fruitvilla]

On 19/08/2024 at 06:53, TRO said:

pps congrats to the unsung hero Austin Macphee.

Yeah ... I thought the corner set piece was brilliant. McGinn, Bailey, Pau and Rogers crowding the goalie, making a dash for the near post, drawing the defenders with them. Creating a vacuum just in front of the goalie, which sucked in the ball followed by Onana.

What a set piece.

[TRO]

On 19/08/2024 at 14:48, Vive_La_Villa said:

Many positives but the negatives are we need to take our chances and it could have cost us in the end with the chances they had.  We should have been 3-4 up before the penalty. 
 

However if a team is creating big chances against a traditionally defensive team it's a very good sign. 

The paradox here is, when you score heavily in games the next team get spooked and park the bus.

I think the best teams just know how to win.They just seem to do enough, so a 1-0 or a 2-1 still gets the same points as a 5-0 but without the publicity and Drama.

I also think consistency is born out of marginal wins as opposed to blowing teams away ( which is admittedly, nice now and again) It forces us to improve the containing game and keeping the ball, thus control.

[TRO]

16 hours ago, The_Steve said:

VAR said it was “minimal contact” and no pen 

I find the subjective approach to " Minimal contact" fascinating.

It seemed as conclusive to me as the one they gave against Cash.....or none was penalties.

so it looks a bit like "minimal contact" says to us....heads you lose tails you lose.

[TRO]

16 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

To be fair I think we had one of the hardest fixtures in week 1 too. I'd expect West Ham to always create chances at home.

Having said that how on earth is our xG lower with the amount of big chances we had. Bailey missed an open goal.

I agree.

West Ham will be formidable in the forth coming games, particularly at home.