UK Immigration and Population

[chrisp65]

1 hour ago, gwi1890 said:

Very true but unfortunately we will starve under labour people have idea how scarce food will become with the sanctions and restrictions they’ve instilled on the agriculture and fishing industry. One government destroys our health sector the other destroys our ability to produce food.

It’s been a hell of a 35 days.

What legislation have the introduced that has destroyed our ability to produce food? Genuine question.

Personally, I think that long before we starve, we’ll probably learn to consume less and to waste less and not to have quite so much land dedicated to feeding our food to other animals and we might even realise people are already starving whilst we are buying food for 36 million pets.

Have we considered eating illegal immigrants?

[magnkarl]

6 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Have we considered eating illegal immigrants?

Or eating illegal rabbits?!

[sidcow]

It's just struck me he's probably talking about allowing land based wind turbines. Solar parks and building on grey belt land. 

I hope he doesn't play golf because golf courses have taken over 20 times more land in the UK than the maximum amount of land net zero infrastructure will need to take up.  Plus land surrounding them is still actually able to be used for farming. 

Still it's better that we continue to poison the world and not build enough homes for the population. 

Edited August 9 by sidcow

[gwi1890]

1 hour ago, Seat68 said:

Blimey that was quick. What sanctions have they introduced to those industries. Its been what, 5 weeks?

 Sustainable Farming Scheme (SFS) wants to take 10% of land for trees and 10% for habitat. This can potentially take 20% of farmers productive land out of food production meaning less opportunity for them to make a living. It will be like taking a 20% pay cut. It will also make your food more expensive because there will be less being produced on the 20% of land being taken by trees and habitat. This will take place from 2025 it is estimated 20 thousand jobs will be lost and the majority of small to medium family farm will go out of business nobody is opposed to working for a sustainable environmental future and I know first hand from working in the industry that thousands of trees and hedgerows are planted per year but the expectations is to take 20% of the land entirely out of production rather then planting boundaries and sporadically around the farm in short that’s 160 tonnes of wheat less produced or 12 thousand litres of milk or 300 thousand tones of potatoes per farm.

My post is getting a bit long winded now but the restrictions require a new Nitrate Vulnerable Zone (NVZ) over the whole of UK is coming. A NVZ limits how many livestock can be kept on a hectare of land and how much ORGANIC fertiliser can be spread this will also lead to less food being produced.

Using the incorrect GWP100 metric to measure the warming potential of farming methane emissions and not the more accurate GWP-star to measure farming’s true cyclical methane emissions who’s levels in the atmosphere stay constant and add no warming effect. This is all while other industries burning huge amounts of fossil fuels will be allowed to carry on without changing anything meaningful of at all. 
 

As for fishing I can’t give you a detailed description but it’s to do with levy and deduction on the amount caught which means the job isn’t sustainable this is a message a friend of mine sent me last week

I get a email to day from the MMO ( basically the fish police) you haven’t replied to our email we sent you a few days ago ( bare in mind I’m a fisherman not a secretary and I check emails when weather is bad after doing my maintenance,fuelling ,up fish returns so about once a month if your lucky)if you go to sea next without replying to this email you will be fishing illegally. So now I have to register for a new app,if I don’t have a smart phone I have to phone in ,if I have no signal,find a phone box and I have to report the weight of each species I land before we put it ashore,and we have to GUESS the weights now this is the best part, if our estimated weight is out by more than 10% we will be prosecuted.

It’s unrealistic and unworkable for industries that work in excess of 18 hours per day and are away for weeks.

Edited August 9 by gwi1890

[Seat68]

14 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

 Sustainable Farming Scheme (SFS) wants to take 10% of land for trees and 10% for habitat. This can potentially take 20% of farmers productive land out of food production meaning less opportunity for them to make a living. It will be like taking a 20% pay cut. It will also make your food more expensive because there will be less being produced on the 20% of land being taken by trees and habitat. This will take place from 2025 it is estimated 20 thousand jobs will be lost and the majority of small to medium family farm will go out of business nobody is opposed to working for a sustainable environmental future and I know first hand from working in the industry that thousands of trees and hedgerows are planted per year but the expectations is to take 20% of the land entirely out of production rather then planting boundaries and sporadically around the farm in short that’s 160 tonnes of wheat less produced or 12 thousand litres of milk or 300 thousand tones of potatoes per farm.

My post is getting a bit long winded now but the restrictions require a new Nitrate Vulnerable Zone (NVZ) over the whole of UK is coming. A NVZ limits how many livestock can be kept on a hectare of land and how much ORGANIC fertiliser can be spread this will also lead to less food being produced.

Using the incorrect GWP100 metric to measure the warming potential of farming methane emissions and not the more accurate GWP-star to measure farming’s true cyclical methane emissions who’s levels in the atmosphere stay constant and add no warming effect. This is all while other industries burning huge amounts of fossil fuels will be allowed to carry on without changing anything meaningful of at all. 
 

As for fishing I can’t give you a detailed description but it’s to do with levy and deduction on the amount caught which means the job isn’t sustainable this is a message a friend of mine sent me last week

I get a email to day from the MMO ( basically the fish police) you haven’t replied to our email we sent you a few days ago ( bare in mind I’m a fisherman not a secretary and I check emails when weather is bad after doing my maintenance,fuelling ,up fish returns so about once a month if your lucky)if you go to sea next without replying to this email you will be fishing illegally. So now I have to register for a new app,if I don’t have a smart phone I have to phone in ,if I have no signal,find a phone box and I have to report the weight of each species I land before we put it ashore,and we have to GUESS the weights now this is the best part, if our estimated weight is out by more than 10% we will be prosecuted.

It’s unrealistic and unworkable for industries that work in excess of 18 hours per day and are away for weeks.

Sustainable farming incentive was introduced in May 2024. 

[gwi1890]

3 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

Sustainable farming incentive was introduced in May 2024. 

It won’t take place until 2025 and it was initially pushed by labour government for wales. It will be pushed through regardless of protests and workable amendments now.

[bickster]

Disclaimer, I know so little about the SFS…

But this just appears to be in principal what the EU paid farmers to do and they haven’t been paid to do since.

[gwi1890]

Just now, bickster said:

Disclaimer, I know so little about the SFS…

But this just appears to be in principal what the EU paid farmers to do and they haven’t been paid to do since.

 Nobody’s been paid anything it’s essentially what I posted above.

[Seat68]

2 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

 Nobody’s been paid anything it’s essentially what I posted above.

Isnt it voluntary in wales? 

[bickster]

3 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

 Nobody’s been paid anything it’s essentially what I posted above.

Yeah I gave up reading that after the first sentence as it seemed to imply that all land was farmable.

[bickster]

Oh I see, the complaint it that they'll be chopping trees down… 13% of the Uk is currently wooded and…

Quote

• 8.7% of land in England is of developed use, with 91.1% of non-developed use and the remaining 0.2% being vacant.
• The top 3 land use groups were ‘Agriculture’ (63.1%), ‘Forestry, open land and water’ (20.1%), and ‘Residential gardens’ (4.9%).

.gov.uk

[chrisp65]

1 hour ago, gwi1890 said:

 Nobody’s been paid anything it’s essentially what I posted above.

 

1 hour ago, Seat68 said:

Isnt it voluntary in wales? 

it’s part of the deal to get your farming grants you have to put up to 20% of land aside, for things like water slow down, bugs and wildlife, trees, and a buffer zone between chicken shit run off and rivers.

The river Wye is dying due to the run off of nitrates from intensive farming, something has to be done. The farmers were hoping for free money to replace the EU money post Brexit.

You don’t have to set aside, you also don’t have to accept the money. 

The waste in the industry makes 20% set aside look like small beans.

[tonyh29]

So many strange positions  on a few VT threads lately .. has VT been invaded  again like it was after Stong City ? 

[AVFC_Hitz]

1 minute ago, tonyh29 said:

So many strange positions  on a few VT threads lately .. has VT been invaded  again like it was after Stong City ? 

Yeah I know, they roundly rejected the Romanian Chem trails and now they're happy with the BBC.

[bickster]

15 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

 

it’s part of the deal to get your farming grants you have to put up to 20% of land aside, for things like water slow down, bugs and wildlife, trees, and a buffer zone between chicken shit run off and rivers.

The river Wye is dying due to the run off of nitrates from intensive farming, something has to be done. The farmers were hoping for free money to replace the EU money post Brexit.

You don’t have to set aside, you also don’t have to accept the money. 

The waste in the industry makes 20% set aside look like small beans.

But no-ones getting paid!

[chrisp65]

There’s a very strong campaign here at the moment, No Farmers, No Food. It feels a little misdirected. Nobody has suggested there should be no farmers, everyone appreciates that post Brexit they need some sort of subsidy. But what they appear to want is free money with no strings, whilst being a major cause of pollution.

Personally, I strongly believe national security starts with food. The food sector from field to your bin, is spectacularly wasteful.

[bobzy]

Pretty sure that quote said someone checks their emails once a month.

How are they even functioning right now?

Edited August 9 by bobzy

[bickster]

3 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Pretty sure that quote said someone checks their emails once a month.

How are they even functioning right now?

Work emails or personal. I never rarely check personal emails

[Rolta]

I put this in the wrong thread: 
 

Grapes of Wrath is a good read in relation to immigration, cynicism, nonsense excuses, fear mongering, and power structures (aka the rich) winding up people related to the plight of desperate fellow human beings. 

And in this book the desperate people are from Oklahoma and they're travelling to California – and the people who don't trust them, block them, and despise them are just fellow Americans in the next state over. Of course, there are stories told about the 'Oakies' to justify the xenophobia and the way they are then treated and dehumanised.  

[sidcow]

Not specifically about the UK but a lot of info here about the problems of the declining birth rate globally and future problems 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/11/global-birthrates-dropping

Birthrates are plummeting world wide. Can governments turn the tide?

Nations are deploying baby bonuses, subsidised childcare and parental leave to try and reverse a rapidly declining fertility rate – largely to no avail

Quote

It’s fairly clear that, when women are more educated, more liberated, and more able to access contraception, they start having fewer children. What’s not clear is how to convince them to have more. Cheaper childcare? More flexible workplaces? More help from the menfolk? Affordable housing? More optimism about the future?

Quote

Low-fertility future’

Statistics show most countries are now below replacement rate – that’s 2.1 children per woman, enough to replace the existing population with a bit of a buffer.

Quote

The IHME study said by 2050, more than three quarters of the countries will be below replacement rate. By 2100, it will be 97%.

The only countries projected to have more than 2.1 by then are Samoa, Somalia, Tonga, Niger, Chad and Tajikistan.

Quote

“Governments must plan for emerging threats to economies, food security, health, the environment and geopolitical security brought on by these demographic changes that are set to transform the way we live,” an accompanying press release said.

Quote

Low-fertility, higher-income countries such as South Korea and Japan will need open immigration and policies to support parents.

Quote

Dr Natalia V Bhattacharjee, a co-lead author on the study, said the trends would “completely reconfigure the global economy and the international balance of power and will necessitate reorganising societies”.

Quote

Meanwhile, in Taiwan, where the fertility rate has now fallen to 0.865, they are closing schools. In Japan, where the rate is 1.21, sales of adult incontinence products have outstripped nappy sales. In Greece, where it’s 1.264, some villages have not seen a birth in years and people are being encouraged to work a six-day week. And in South Korea, where it’s 0.72, the population is expected to halve by 2100.