Davkaus Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 1 minute ago, MCU said: It's protesting ruined by a minority and blew up by the media. They are and will be prosecuted. Let's put to one side the rioters for a moment, and assume it's true that they're a minority. Take the ones who are there peacefully protesting outside of mosques and asylum hotels.. What's that got to do with the Southport killings? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCU Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Yes it is. it is by definition racist. But ok, even if it wasn't and they really were just anti illegal immigration protests, how is that in any way related to what happened in Southport? Reform are anti-immigration. It's not just the Southport murdering, it's the uncontrollable illegal immigration in general. These people aren't being vetted and are being put up by the tax payer. That's fact and that's part of why people are protesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted August 9 VT Supporter Share Posted August 9 2 minutes ago, MCU said: It's protesting ruined by a minority and blew up by the media. They are and will be prosecuted. Educate yourself and watch 'Wesley Winter' on YT and you'll see for yourself. I am completely speechless. This is a staggering take on what's unfolded over the last week. You also seem very down on the media which is a pretty standard take from the rabbit hole conspiracy theory brigade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCU Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Just now, Davkaus said: Let's put to one side the rioters for a moment, and assume it's true that they're a minority. Take the ones who are there peacefully protesting outside of mosques and asylum hotels.. What's that got to do with the Southport killings? As above, the Southport killings have tipped people over the edge. It's part of a bigger problem that yes I agree, has nothing to do with that particular incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Just now, MCU said: It's not just the Southport murdering, it's the uncontrollable illegal immigration in general. These people aren't being vetted and are being put up by the tax payer. That's fact and that's part of why people are protesting. The Southport murdering had nothing to do with illegal immigration - so no idea why you're trying to link them. Agreed that people should be vetted. We should have safe routes for people seeking asylum to come to the UK rather than allowing them to take life-threatening journeys via boat. They should be able to enter normally and be vetted - agreed? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 9 VT Supporter Share Posted August 9 (edited) 3 minutes ago, MCU said: It's not just the Southport murdering, it's the uncontrollable illegal immigration in general. These people aren't being vetted and are being put up by the tax payer. That's fact and that's part of why people are protesting. Again, that isn't why people are protesting, just making that clear. But to give you the benefit of the doubt and try to have a proper discussion, let's assume it is as you say it is. I'm still struggling to see how it is connected in any way to Southport. Southport was a horrific tragedy. But it was committed by a welsh teenager who is the son of Rwandans who were/are here legally So why has that triggered these protests? I know why. But I want to know why you think they have triggered these protests if, as you say, there's no racial motivation and it's just about illegal immigration Edited August 9 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCU Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Just now, bobzy said: The Southport murdering had nothing to do with illegal immigration - so no idea why you're trying to link them. Agreed that people should be vetted. We should have safe routes for people seeking asylum to come to the UK rather than allowing them to take life-threatening journeys via boat. They should be able to enter normally and be vetted - agreed? I absolutley agree. But why hasn't it happened already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 I don't think this thread has anything to do with being against illegal immigration does it? In fact is there anybody in the country that is pro illegal immigration? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 9 VT Supporter Share Posted August 9 1 minute ago, MCU said: I absolutley agree. But why hasn't it happened already? Well, Brexit hasn't helped. Now we're entirely on our own dealing with this common European problem, instead of working it out as a group of 20+ countries. Also the Tories clearly used it as a political football for the last election, not processing claims for asylum deliberately. Even still, why is it kicked off now? After a murder of young girls by a Welsh, non-Muslim, teenager 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Just now, MCU said: I absolutley agree. But why hasn't it happened already? It’s a big question - but it’s an issue for the government rather than mosques and immigration centres. Which is why the rioting has been xenophobic/racist rather than actually about illegal immigration. As I said ages ago in this thread (or possibly the racism one), there’s a sensible debate to be had on (illegal) immigration but none of this has been it. It’s been horrific extreme nationalism and siding with it is very problematic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 (edited) 6 minutes ago, MCU said: As above, the Southport killings have tipped people over the edge. It's part of a bigger problem that yes I agree, has nothing to do with that particular incident. Fair point but it's tipped them over the edge because of the colour of his skin which is why the protesters are being labelled as racist. Edited August 9 by Vive_La_Villa 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Just now, Stevo985 said: It's very obviously false. And you very obviously posted it to get a reaction. Which you got, so you are good, I'll give you that How is ot false There have been lots of people on here slating the police. You yourself were calling them 'all' out until you found out the whole story at the airport. This week they are heros again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCU Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Fair point but it's tipped them over the edge because of the colour of his skin which is why the protesters are being labelled as racist ! Sorry, too many people are quoting me and I'm trying to keep up but I ultimately I do agree with this. My bad if I've associated the Southport killings with the riots. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 9 VT Supporter Share Posted August 9 Just now, foreveryoung said: How is ot false There have been lots of people on here slating the police. You yourself were calling them 'all' out until you found out the whole story at the airport. This week they are heros again. Ok let me try and help Criticising someone or a group of people for one thing, doesn't mean you think absolutely everything they do is bad. Praising someone or a group of people for one thing, doesn't mean you think absolutely everything they do is good. Hope that helps 2 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: You yourself were calling them 'all' out until you found out the whole story at the airport. Also this is false. I'd be very interested if you could find any posts from me that even remotely reflect this. It would be very unusual for you to just make something up... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ml1dch Posted August 9 Popular Post Share Posted August 9 (edited) 14 minutes ago, MCU said: I absolutley agree. But why hasn't it happened already? It depends what you expect to happen. The main reason is a massive defunding of the asylum claims system under the previous Government. So rather than accepting a claim and allowing them to stay in the UK or rejecting the claim and deporting them they are in a permanent limbo in hotels around the country. Neither accepted nor rejected, just here. It's pretty clear that the reason is that lots of them have valid claims, which would see huge amount of asylum claims accepted. Which was unpalatable to the previous Government (and, I would argue, lots of the people rioting), who preferred limbo to higher accepted asylum claims. I would also argue that what a lot of people rioting want is not for these people to "enter normally and be vetted", it's for these people to somehow not enter at all. I'll make no judgement on whether that's what you, personally want. And that's very difficult, because there isn't really a way to stop them. So if that's what you expect to happen, the reason it hasn't happened already is that there isn't really a way to prevent someone from getting on a boat and going somewhere if that's what they really want to do. Edited August 9 by ml1dch 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted August 9 VT Supporter Share Posted August 9 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I don't think this thread has anything to do with being against illegal immigration does it? In fact is there anybody in the country that is pro illegal immigration? No, well probably some really far left people. Nobody think's it's a good idea. And as people have said Government after Government have tried to stop it. Short of machine gunning them on the beaches nothing could be done until now. Now labour have some more progressive solutions let's see what happens. Of course in the overall scheme of things they make very little difference to the country and the real reasons why people like @MCU get angry about it is the fault of the Tories mis management of the country and diversion tactics of blaming it on the immigrants. I got some questions about a comment I made at the beginning saying the housing policy has lead to this, and I stand by that. By helping their mates in the building trade constantly earn bumper profits because of undersupply in housing sector, housing prices are out of control, no one can afford to buy and people are being crippled by rent. It feeds into the "country is full" narrative that the right wingers trumpet. It makes people poorer which makes the poor people easier to control and manipulate. If everyone had a decent, reasonably priced place to live an awful lot of disaffection would ease. Edited August 9 by sidcow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 not had a Downfall parody for a while , couple of bits on this made me chuckle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Just now, Stevo985 said: Ok let me try and help Criticising someone or a group of people for one thing, doesn't mean you think absolutely everything they do is bad. Praising someone or a group of people for one thing, doesn't mean you think absolutely everything they do is good. Hope that helps Also this is false. I'd be very interested if you could find any posts from me that even remotely reflect this. It would be very unusual for you to just make something up... I'm not even bothering reading that. You'll never be proved wrong on anything, theres a old chap down my local the same, he's a nightmare. Let's just get back in topic. What I will say is telling me to "run to my mommy", is not really sensible debate, however much you disagree with me. But I guess it's okay to say that too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted August 9 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted August 9 10 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I don't think this thread has anything to do with being against illegal immigration does it? In fact is there anybody in the country that is pro illegal immigration? This is the crux of the matter. The whole thing comes down to people confusing/conflating illegal immigration with legal migration. I believe that's what @MCU is doing, and I mean that in good faith, it's not a dig. For a lot of people that's accidental. For others it's not (see our friend Farage for example) People see something negative about illegal immigration and then take it out on any migrants or refugees, who aren't here illegally. These riots are a prime example of it and it highlights exactly why they are racist riots or "protests" A person of colour who is the son of an immigrant has committed a huge crime, and people have accidentally or deliberately confused that with an illegal immigration problem, and then taken their anger out on what THEY PERCEIVE to also be products of illegal immigration 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 1 minute ago, foreveryoung said: I'm not even bothering reading that. You'll never be proved wrong on anything, theres a old chap down my local the same, he's a nightmare. Let's just get back in topic. What I will say is telling me to "run to my mommy", is not really sensible debate, however much you disagree with me. But I guess it's okay to say that too So he's asked you for an example to back up what you're saying... and your response is "I'm not even bothering reading that" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts