MCU Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: As stupid as anyone who voted Reform is (and make no mistake, some absolute **** idiots voted for them. Anyone with a brain who voted for them has been sadly duped by Farage and his racist mate), there's a world of difference between voting for Reform and going out to participate in racist riots. They are not the majority even within the Reform voter base. That's how mental it is. Honestly the fact you're aligning yourself anywhere near that lot is horrific. You genuinely need to take a long look in the mirror and evaluate your life. It's incredibly sad to be falling down that rabbit hole. I hope you sort yourself out Not sure why you keep getting personal but I’m entitled to my opinion just as much as you are. Wanting to vote for a party trying to get a hold of illegal immigration is not racist. Theres scum bags either side of your political bubble, my argument is you seem to disregarding and burying your head in the sand about the one. I’d happily debate you for hours but sadly most of you keep reverting to just calling me a racist and to take a long hard look at myself which quite simply tells me all I need to know. (Comes back to my previous point, the two tier system in this country couldn’t be more obvious). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrchnry Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 I think disregarding anyone's opinion on immigration as them being racist and thick is kinda how we ended up with brexit. There's a large amount of demand avoidance when you call someone's opinions wrong because yours are right. I've always been fairly left wing but 10 years ago most wouldn't have had a clue what left and right meant. 14 years of divide and conquer and now you're either hard left or hard right. It's not a healthy environment for discussion. It will take some time to heal that rift. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 3 hours ago, Genie said: The Mail also upset Tommy Robinson by printing his hide-out / luxury holiday resort. I wonder if they are going to follow the government in moving more to the centre? I don't think the Mail actually has any strict principles - they'll go with whatever viewpoint generates the most clicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCU Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 8 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Did you get an answer on your question about the Palestinian flag yesterday @MCU ? A few people offered to give answers if you wanted to explain what the issue was. Don’t want you to feel people are just dropping in, saying something incendiary, then disappearing for 24 hours thinking they’re being enigmatic. Wave a Palestinian flag - unity Wave an English flag - far right / racist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted August 8 VT Supporter Share Posted August 8 I think the problem is, when you spend a large portion of your time chasing the internet algorithms down enough rabbit holes, and talking to similarly minded people down the pub who are doing the same, you're living your life in an echo chamber. It's easy to believe you are in the majority because that's the only noise you hear. And of course strangers/casual acquaintances you make your views known to face to face are highly unlikely to challenge you for fear of confrontation. Sure, you'll meet a few along the way who are brave enough to call you out but they will be a minority. Most people will just keep quiet or pretend to agree until you go away. You probably don't notice the people quietly exiting your life because they're replaced by more similarly minded highly vocal people who fill the void. It must be quite a shock to come on somewhere like this out of the echo chamber and find these odd people who don't think like you. But it's OK because they're just a few odd people on the internet, you can go back to your racist mates on Facebook or down the pub and have a laff about them whilst talking about your utopian future that is just around the corner now. You all agree the movement is unstoppable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 3 minutes ago, MCU said: Not sure why you keep getting personal but I’m entitled to my opinion just as much as you are. Wanting to vote for a party trying to get a hold of illegal immigration is not racist. Theres scum bags either side of your political bubble, my argument is you seem to disregarding and burying your head in the sand about the one. I’d happily debate you for hours but sadly most of you keep reverting to just calling me a racist and to take a long hard look at myself which quite simply tells me all I need to know. (Comes back to my previous point, the two tier system in this country couldn’t be more obvious). It's just people can see you for what you are. If you support these riots and the effect they've had on people with very legitimate reasons to be in this country, including people who are actively British but just don't happen to be white then you are a racist. You're not talking about illegal immigration at all. You'll probably find that support for 'illegal immigration' is almost zero, but the likes of Farage and so on have just wound up the easily led just the same as any demagogue in history and it seems as if you're a million miles away from having a genuine conversation about 'illegal immigration'. You've fallen for the lines of charlatans. You're not the first and you won't be the last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 1 minute ago, ender4 said: I don't think the Mail actually has any strict principles - they'll go with whatever viewpoint generates the most clicks. That’s what my thinking was. As the country moves slowly away from the right of the Tories and wake up to Brexit being a disaster will they start to throw some of the hard right figures under the bus? Will they turn on Farage as the general public do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 8 minutes ago, MCU said: Not sure why you keep getting personal but I’m entitled to my opinion just as much as you are. Wanting to vote for a party trying to get a hold of illegal immigration is not racist. Theres scum bags either side of your political bubble, my argument is you seem to disregarding and burying your head in the sand about the one. I’d happily debate you for hours but sadly most of you keep reverting to just calling me a racist and to take a long hard look at myself which quite simply tells me all I need to know. (Comes back to my previous point, the two tier system in this country couldn’t be more obvious). What’s your issue with immigration, then? You can put it pretty concisely, I imagine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 (edited) 4 minutes ago, MCU said: Wave a Palestinian flag - unity Wave an English flag - far right / racist Is a myth that’s shared around right wing groups. Is Keely Hodgkinson labelled far right or racist? (not England flag I know) Edited August 8 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrchnry Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 2 minutes ago, MCU said: Wave a Palestinian flag - unity Wave an English flag - far right / racist You don't need to wear an English flag though do you. You're here, every day. Always baffles me when people say we should have a bank holiday and parades for St George's day. We live in England every day. It's different to someone celebrating their culture of a different country. It allows them connect with their heritage and be proud of it for one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted August 8 VT Supporter Share Posted August 8 8 minutes ago, MCU said: I’d happily debate you for hours but sadly most of you keep reverting to just calling me a racist and to take a long hard look at myself which quite simply tells me all I need to know. (Comes back to my previous point, the two tier system in this country couldn’t be more obvious). Good on you fella. I'm glad you are still managing to make your way in the world despite the whole system being stacked against you in the favour or all these black and brown people who are given all the advantages life has to offer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 (edited) 9 minutes ago, mrchnry said: I think disregarding anyone's opinion on immigration as them being racist and thick is kinda how we ended up with brexit. There's a lot of truth in this. But when people seem to at least tacitly support the rioters, what else is there to say to them? Unfortunately for the more moderate people, what the last week or two has done is turn 'Legitimate Concerns About Immigration' into a bit of a dogwhistle. Edited August 8 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post markavfc40 Posted August 8 Popular Post Share Posted August 8 (edited) 26 minutes ago, MCU said: Wave a Palestinian flag - unity Wave an English flag - far right / racist It is not about the flag it is about who is waving it. A bloke with a flag in one hand and a brick in the other whilst chanting Muslims Out or F**k The P***s is hardly uniting the country/showing unity is he. Edited August 8 by markavfc40 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 1 minute ago, mrchnry said: You don't need to wear an English flag though do you. You're here, every day. Always baffles me when people say we should have a bank holiday and parades for St George's day. We live in England every day. It's different to someone celebrating their culture of a different country. It allows them connect with their heritage and be proud of it for one day. Well that, and also the Israel-Palestine conflict is happening right now - it’s a current issue. You didn’t generally see Palestinian flags waved around until civilians in Gaza were being massacred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Genie Posted August 8 Popular Post Share Posted August 8 Wave a flag and act like a word removed and you’ll be called a word removed. It’s not because of the flag. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 1 minute ago, MCU said: Wave a Palestinian flag - unity Wave an English flag - far right / racist I’m not sure there’s anything intrinsically racist or uniting about either flag. Flags are just pictures on sticks. I think wearing a cross of St George and swastika tattoo set is problematic. I think wearing a St Georg flag rugby top whilst looting is problematic. But I had a drive through Derbyshire yesterday and plenty of nice houses had flags but I didn’t think anything about them one way or the other. I’ve been on a march where people had Palestinian flags, whilst I was there, they were demanding an end to war whilst on a police approved route for their march. I’m sure there will be arseholes with flags of all types including Palestinian and Israeli and St George. I think you have to look beyond the flag to the context of what the flag waver is doing. Short version, official peace march, less threatening than looting Greggs. Can you agree with that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted August 8 VT Supporter Share Posted August 8 Just now, Genie said: Wave a flag and act like a word removed and you’ll be called a word removed. It’s not because of the flag. Which is what started this. The flag needs to be reclaimed from words removed and become the flag of England again, a flag to be proud of instead of shamed by. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCU Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I’m not sure there’s anything intrinsically racist or uniting about either flag. Flags are just pictures on sticks. I think wearing a cross of St George and swastika tattoo set is problematic. I think wearing a St Georg flag rugby top whilst looting is problematic. But I had a drive through Derbyshire yesterday and plenty of nice houses had flags but I didn’t think anything about them one way or the other. I’ve been on a march where people had Palestinian flags, whilst I was there, they were demanding an end to war whilst on a police approved route for their march. I’m sure there will be arseholes with flags of all types including Palestinian and Israeli and St George. I think you have to look beyond the flag to the context of what the flag waver is doing. Short version, official peace march, less threatening than looting Greggs. Can you agree with that? I do agree with that of course. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted August 8 VT Supporter Share Posted August 8 1 minute ago, chrisp65 said: I’m not sure there’s anything intrinsically racist or uniting about either flag. Flags are just pictures on sticks. I think wearing a cross of St George and swastika tattoo set is problematic. I think wearing a St Georg flag rugby top whilst looting is problematic. But I had a drive through Derbyshire yesterday and plenty of nice houses had flags but I didn’t think anything about them one way or the other. I’ve been on a march where people had Palestinian flags, whilst I was there, they were demanding an end to war whilst on a police approved route for their march. I’m sure there will be arseholes with flags of all types including Palestinian and Israeli and St George. I think you have to look beyond the flag to the context of what the flag waver is doing. Short version, official peace march, less threatening than looting Greggs. Can you agree with that? The issue is that the Palestinian flag thing is a transient, recent thing brought about due to a specific recent event. The English flag has been dragged through the mud and trampled on by by thugs and racists for decades. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 1 minute ago, bobzy said: I don’t think there’ll be much more of a lurch to the far-right, personally. I'm not so sure about this , coupled with the clear rise of the right in some European countries I think this could potentially get worse They might not be throwing bricks at the police , attacking immigrants or destroying buildings , but the Police need to publicly charge some of the counter protestors who were running around with knives a bit sharpish or the two tier policing line will run and run and I think that will stoke the flames even more as stream and streams of white people are "made an example of " even at a time when the internet was spreading the lie that a Muslim immigrant had killed 3 children , going on TV and stating publicly to the Muslim communities "we will protect you" , probably sent a few more clearings in the woods onto the street , you and I may understand what he was trying to say , but the click and share brigade don't do context , they do outrage There is a story today that Anti Semitism has hit record highs , I think some sections of society will equate that to Muslims and their regular demos in London rather than Israel's actions in responding to a terror attack on its citizens by killing and starving civilians , but it fans the flames even more The hard core racists are few and almost certainly can't be changed , but those 15 year old scrotes on the street , those outraged by what they read on Facebook , influenced by the bloke down the pub or a WhatsApp post ..I think they can ,they just need to be shown that they aren't the victims in all this . The government have only been in a month so they need time but with a few actions they can pretty much make Reform irrelevant , firstly by be stopping the "uncontrolled immigration" ... As we've seen , the right seem to be partial to Chinese food , so they aren't totally against immigration , more the current perception of an invasion by armies on boats across the channel , stop them ( and don't re-join the EU ) and Reform pretty much cease to exist , and then there isn't airtime for them to spread the division and hate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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