Popular Post _AA_786 Posted August 6 Popular Post Share Posted August 6 6 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: It's why it's so important that the big group in Bordesley stays calm tonight - they're being set up by the far right instigators with the rumour of a fake gathering there. 3 hours ago, Swerbs said: The counter mob have attacked the clumsy swan pub up yew tree 1 hour ago, Rugeley Villa said: This pub in Yardley isn’t it? Prominently white or not? Evening All, just catching up with the threads and it continues to be reassuring that the majority of VT folk think in a reasonable way. Most of you seem to be Midlands based but don't necessarily have all the news so rely on snippets. If it helps, here's a few bits that may help... There has been continued reports of supposed attacks on mosques, NHS staff and hotels housing immigrants in Birmingham. Personally I thought it was a red herring as EDL, racists or whoever are not realistically going after a relatively small and innocuous mosque in Bordesley Green when the area itself is heavily Asian with Saltley, Alum Rock, Small Heath within minutes away. The Muslim community does have an issue with a minority of youths who need little instigation to have a fight so it seemed like a ploy to attract a group together to make everyone look bad as @OutByEaster? suggested. From my contacts and friends, whilst there was some illegal parking and some idiots bringing weapons or motorbikes, the Bordesley Green response was uneventful. People also stood by schools, heartlands hospital and other places of worship to ensure their protection. Unfortunately some false reports again goaded idiots into heading down the road to Yardley (the Yew Tree island). There you have a pub that has had some suspected but unconfirmed EDL links. To answer @Rugeley Villa it is predominantly white and they seemingly have tried to upscale it from the old pub it was back when I went to the nearby school. It would be unfair for me to say this is indicative of the owners views as I don't know. The pub continues to be in a majority white area, adjoining some high ethnic areas so there has been repeat instances of some drinkers verbally abusing non-whites previously. However for today... the report that the EDL were based there was incorrect and resulted in some potentially innocent people needing to barracade themselves in. One chap chose to confront the group of largely masked Asian lads, and a bunch cowardly set upon him. More sensible individuals quickly tried to step in and deescalate things, before a community group called the 'Bearded Bros' went to apologise and put things right. Hope that helps. ---------------------------------------------- Multiple reports of groups driving around with faces covered doing nazi salutes and shouting abuse have been reported, people sworn at in streets when alone etc. but thankfully nothing sizeable has occurred in Brum to my knowledge beyond those awful incidents in Solihull and Tamworth. There'll continue to be a number of young lads prepared to head down to any incident so my concern is that some idiots reacting to false information may continue play into far right narrative. Also having seen the size of opposition, any racist actions will likely take the form of singular late night attacks or vandalism so people are being told that continued precautions will sadly be needed. Multiple workplaces across different industries are allowing staff to WFH on Wednesday as further trouble is expected so stay safe everyone! 11 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa_nz Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 1 hour ago, _AA_786 said: Evening All, just catching up with the threads and it continues to be reassuring that the majority of VT folk think in a reasonable way. Most of you seem to be Midlands based but don't necessarily have all the news so rely on snippets. If it helps, here's a few bits that may help... There has been continued reports of supposed attacks on mosques, NHS staff and hotels housing immigrants in Birmingham. Personally I thought it was a red herring as EDL, racists or whoever are not realistically going after a relatively small and innocuous mosque in Bordesley Green when the area itself is heavily Asian with Saltley, Alum Rock, Small Heath within minutes away. The Muslim community does have an issue with a minority of youths who need little instigation to have a fight so it seemed like a ploy to attract a group together to make everyone look bad as @OutByEaster? suggested. From my contacts and friends, whilst there was some illegal parking and some idiots bringing weapons or motorbikes, the Bordesley Green response was uneventful. People also stood by schools, heartlands hospital and other places of worship to ensure their protection. Unfortunately some false reports again goaded idiots into heading down the road to Yardley (the Yew Tree island). There you have a pub that has had some suspected but unconfirmed EDL links. To answer @Rugeley Villa it is predominantly white and they seemingly have tried to upscale it from the old pub it was back when I went to the nearby school. It would be unfair for me to say this is indicative of the owners views as I don't know. The pub continues to be in a majority white area, adjoining some high ethnic areas so there has been repeat instances of some drinkers verbally abusing non-whites previously. However for today... the report that the EDL were based there was incorrect and resulted in some potentially innocent people needing to barracade themselves in. One chap chose to confront the group of largely masked Asian lads, and a bunch cowardly set upon him. More sensible individuals quickly tried to step in and deescalate things, before a community group called the 'Bearded Bros' went to apologise and put things right. Hope that helps. ---------------------------------------------- Multiple reports of groups driving around with faces covered doing nazi salutes and shouting abuse have been reported, people sworn at in streets when alone etc. but thankfully nothing sizeable has occurred in Brum to my knowledge beyond those awful incidents in Solihull and Tamworth. There'll continue to be a number of young lads prepared to head down to any incident so my concern is that some idiots reacting to false information may continue play into far right narrative. Also having seen the size of opposition, any racist actions will likely take the form of singular late night attacks or vandalism so people are being told that continued precautions will sadly be needed. Multiple workplaces across different industries are allowing staff to WFH on Wednesday as further trouble is expected so stay safe everyone! Watching from the other side of the globe and quite upsetting, I don't know why but this post made it more real than the videos and pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icouldtelltheworld Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 (edited) 8 hours ago, Marka Ragnos said: This is absolutely blowing my mind, reading these posts, especially the local "this is happening down the road" type stuff. @Chindie, when you were mentioning about Lozells Road and Newtown, are you sort of referring to Blue areas? Just trying to understand. Also, I have family around Handsworth. Isn't that an area that seen some violence in years past, long ago? Is it still a tinderbox? Have only skimmed the thread, so might have missed if someone replied directly to this, but I haven't noticed one and know that you're interested in the geography/politics of Brum. Lozells and Newtown are both inner city areas of north Birmingham, a stones throw from Villa Park (both only a mile or so from Handsworth as well). They would've traditionally been Villa areas (assume you are referring to SHA when saying Blue areas), but tbh despite their close proximity to the ground you'd likely find more Liverpool/Man U/Arsenal fans around there these days. I went to school with a lot of lads from around there, and by their own accounts it's partly down to glory hunting, but also sadly partly down to the racism their families faced by sections of Villa supporters in the area in the 70s and 80s acting as a barrier to support of the local club (this is not unique to us, and we were nowhere near the worst club for that type of thing). Sadly, there aren't really any areas of the inner city that you would describe as Villa or Blues strongholds these days, with both clubs drawing their core support from the outer suburbs. As a rule of thumb, Villa to the north of the city centre (Erdington, Kingstanding, Sutton Coldfield) and Blues to the south (Northfield, Longbridge, Chelmsley Wood), with the caveat that you'd find a lot more Villa fans in Blues areas than vice versa. Handsworth became one of the areas that Caribbean and South Asian arrivals in the post-war era were able to settle in, as despite coming here as British citizens, most were denied access to social housing and much of Handsworth had been condemned as slum housing at the time. It has traditionally been an area prone to rioting and nowadays is not a particularly nice area to walk around at night, but no more of a tinderbox than anywhere else in the city really. Interestingly, the last 'race riots' of any note in Birmingham happened in the early 2000s in Lozells, but they arose out of tensions between the local Asian and Caribbean communities, so nothing like the violence that has been seen elsewhere in the UK this weekend. Edited August 6 by icouldtelltheworld 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted August 6 Author VT Supporter Share Posted August 6 (edited) I feel a bit cynical about the general rhetoric of retribution in terms of practicalities. It feels good to imagine, but then the feeling leaves. Not persuaded this kind of tough-talkin' "get em behind bars" sentiment ends up as something very different in the remand itself since at least some of these miscreants will be ex-offenders already and merely headed back to overcrowded under-resourced prisons, I would guess, and others may actually learn a thing or two. But many won't. Will some people just be further radicalised? The rioters are idiots, but the most culpable will just be collecting their online donations and laughing their heads off in Moscow and New York. Then there will almost certainly be a few of the tragedies that occur when stupid people who normally don't do stupid stuff end up incarcerated. I don't have any answers, just throwing people into jail can't be the end of it. Something deeper needs to happen. Community service? And who would manage that? TL;DR version: This is a mess for the justice system and will take years to disentangle. Quote Ministers are preparing an additional 500 prison places to cope with an influx of people expected to be held on remand over the next month, the Ministry of Justice said on Monday. From next week, cells will be used at the newly repurposed HMP Cookham Wood, a former young offender institution in the village of Borstal in Kent, that was closed in March after it was called “inhumane” by a prison watchdog. Officials will also accelerate fire safety work on abandoned cells across the estate, and open a new housing block at HMP Stocken in Rutland, East Midlands. More than 400 people have been arrested so far since far-right unrest erupted in several locations after the killing of three young girls in Southport last Monday. The need for extra cells for rioters comes amid an overcrowding crisis. Last month, there were 87,500 prisoners in England and Wales, with just 700 free places in the men’s estate. Edited August 6 by Marka Ragnos 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icouldtelltheworld Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 13 hours ago, TreeVillan said: Just curious, why was Vile added to the title of this thread later on? Desperate to paint everyone in a negative light? Mostly because none of these 'protesters' can drink in town, mate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icouldtelltheworld Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 Just now, Marka Ragnos said: I feel a bit cynical about the general rhetoric of retribution in terms of practicalities. Not persuaded this kind of tough-talkin' "get em behind bars" sentiment ends up as something very different in the remand itself since at least some of these miscreants will be ex-offenders already and merely headed back to overcrowded under-resourced prisons, I would guess. Will people just be further radicalised? I don't jave any answers, just throwing people into jail can't be the end of it. Something deeper needs to happen. Community service? And who would manage that? Worth noting that Kier Starmer was head of the CPS during the riots in summer 2011, where some fairly ridiculous and draconian sentences were handed out, so he has form and I doubt this is just empty rhetoric from the powers that be. Punitive populism is a stain on our society 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillain Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 3 hours ago, villa_nz said: Watching from the other side of the globe and quite upsetting, I don't know why but this post made it more real than the videos and pictures. Agreed - I don't want to sound like Mary Whitehouse, but the prevalence and influcence of social media platforms is terrifying....Algorithms send users down deeper rabit holes that reinforce their limited polarised views and weaken attention spans so even if they were tempted to read or critically consider another side they wouldn't be able to concentrate long enough to do so, the death of the fourth estate, an economy that takes more and more from a larger and larger portion of the population...this toxic combination will inevitabley leads to an angry, disenfranchised groups of idiots of all political persuasions - it is unbelievably messed up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 10 hours ago, Marka Ragnos said: So restrict people, not platforms. That makes sense to me and seems like it could work, even if imperfectly. Yeah they could trial it see it how it goes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 10 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Yeah they could trial it see it how it goes. They did… then Musk reversed it all and look where we are. He needs to be muted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 (edited) I’m not joking when I say it needs a few evenings now of heavy rain. Everyone will get a bit fed up protesting outside and the crowds will become fewer and fewer. Dampen the spirits of the idiots causing nothing but trouble, rioting and destruction. Edited August 6 by ferguson1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 1 hour ago, Genie said: They did… then Musk reversed it all and look where we are. He needs to be muted. Thats only twitter though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sidcow Posted August 6 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted August 6 1 minute ago, Demitri_C said: Thats only twitter though As I've said before. 1) He/twitter is the worst. He not only doesn't patrol his platform for this kind of shit. He ENCOURAGES and actively participates in it. He's the number 1 target. 2) You've got to draw a line in the sand somewhere. Freedom of speech is important. Really important. But when it consistently crosses the line into hatred you have to take action at some time otherwise it will get pushed further and further. He's been taking the piss and pushing the envelope for ages. 3) Once an example has been made of one platform the others will sit up and take notice. If they realise their business model cannot continue, they'll have to manage their own platform better and realise they can't let any old shit stay unchecked. 4) Why are people so precious about social media platforms? If it was a weekly magazine being published organising riots and spreading hate people would be calling for it to be banned. If it was a specific radio band being used there would be calls for it to me blocked out. What makes a media platform any different? 5) Is shutting down a social media platform even the removal of freedom of speech? There are others they can use. Freedom of speech existed for hundreds of years before the internet was even invented. are we saying people had no freedom of speech before Tim Berners-Lee got clever? 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 6 Moderator Share Posted August 6 Freeze Peach though innit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 I wonder if a solution would be social media platforms requiring licenses going forward? Then those licenses could be revoked where appropriate if they were deemed to be spreading hate, other other things like child abuse, p0rn, suicides etc. Emphasis is then on the platforms to properly moderate its content. Facebook and Twitter are owned by a couple of the richest people on the planet yet they don’t want to spend a suitable amount of money moderating the content. It’s not acceptable. ISP could then block sites which did not have valid licences. I know it’s not perfect and there are work around for those determined to connect but it will definitely hit the traffic to those sites which then hits the owners in the pocket. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted August 6 VT Supporter Share Posted August 6 First person up in court today for posting criminal messages linked to the violence. Facebook being the medium used. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 You reckon what's going on is a legit excuse to not travel from Birmingham to London tomorrow for work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCU Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 (edited) Ah of course, no police presence on the streets of Birmingham last night and no announcement from that fraud in No . 10. ‘It’s not their fault, they were just trying to defend themselves (with machetes)’. Two Tier at its finest. State of this country Edited August 6 by MCU 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jones1328 Posted August 6 Popular Post Share Posted August 6 8 minutes ago, MCU said: Ah of course, no police presence on the streets of Birmingham last night and no announcement from that fraud in No . 10. ‘It’s not their fault, they were just trying to defend themselves (with machetes)’. Two Tier at its finest. State of this country Have a day off will you. Didn't you embarrass yourself enough yesterday having a pop at Kier Starmer for not holding press conferences during events when he wasn't actually even PM. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 19 minutes ago, MCU said: Ah of course, no police presence on the streets of Birmingham last night and no announcement from that fraud in No . 10. ‘It’s not their fault, they were just trying to defend themselves (with machetes)’. Two Tier at its finest. State of this country Last nights scenes weren't pretty but remind me how many innocent people attacked just for the colour of their skin? How many buildings were set on fire; how many shops were looted? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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