Awol Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I thought it was established the day after the last general election it was all going to be about the economy in 2015 I said at the time that the coalition would basically spend 2-3 years cutting hard and then the last 18 mths or so trying to sweeten everyone up ( see minimum wage this week ) My bold: That hasn't happened though, has it? Haven't they only cut public spending by about 1.8% or something similar since 2010? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 The media seem to be doing their best to make it all about the economy as we enter the last year before the election, but it can't be denied that Labour have led them in exactly that direction. I think Labour supporters need to change the emphasis away from what happens to be the growth figures this week and to remind people of what the consequences would be, if the Tories were handed a mandate at the next election. It seems certain that any such signal from the electorate would unleash a round of cuts and public sector job-losses, which would make the present cuts look like shaving-rash. The thing is there are two economies running in the UK, one for the South East and one for the rest of it. I travel a heck of a lot around the country and see clear evidence of that. The issue is the Tory support is clearly centered around the SE plus so are the media so the picture that we see on TV etc is one of things being great whereas the reality is something completely different The spin (by all parties) on stats is actually quite funny because whereas in the past it would be spouted and repeated in the media and that was that basically, now there is virtual instant examination of them via social media and the rest of the internet. The Tory party still have a constant and common set of views that do not easily resonate with fair minded people, hence the use of the "Nasty Party" tag line. Interestingly the UKIP vote and who they will appeal to. Again a close examination of them does not make easy or nice reading, "is it raining?", and you have to wonder when the real nastiness starts during the election run in how bad it will be - the Tory vs UKIP thing will be like a feuding brothers type battle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 My guess would be that the election will be fought on the issue of fear. One of the best known human tendencies is to try and keep what we already have, and it seems likely that both sides will suggest that voting for the other party will put what they perceive they have now, at risk. The Tories will tell their potential voters that Labour will kill off the growing prosperity which 'Osborne has created' and Labour will tell those who work in the public sector that they will lose their jobs or get sold into the private sector. It will certainly be the perfect opportunity to see if the Tory claim that Labour have created themselves a client state which guarantees them votes, is true or not. And it will certainly be the only worthwhile demonstration as to whether Labour's claim that a big proportion of 'hard-working families' are suffering the financial miseries they claim they are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 hard working families we should have a VT Sweep come the TV debates as to how many times that phrase gets used I reckon it will be in the hundreds (by all parties) i switched of QT the other night once Grant Shapps used it 3 times in about 45 seconds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I thought it was established the day after the last general election it was all going to be about the economy in 2015 I said at the time that the coalition would basically spend 2-3 years cutting hard and then the last 18 mths or so trying to sweeten everyone up ( see minimum wage this week ) My bold: That hasn't happened though, has it? Haven't they only cut public spending by about 1.8% or something similar since 2010? probably bad choice of words by me guess it would have been better to say " do the dirty work and the unpopular stuff " as much as anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I thought it was established the day after the last general election it was all going to be about the economy in 2015 I said at the time that the coalition would basically spend 2-3 years cutting hard and then the last 18 mths or so trying to sweeten everyone up ( see minimum wage this week ) My bold: That hasn't happened though, has it? Haven't they only cut public spending by about 1.8% or something similar since 2010? probably bad choice of words by me guess it would have been better to say " do the dirty work and the unpopular stuff " as much as anything "Unfair, ideologically driven attack on the welfare state and public sector", would have been much better. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) hard working families we should have a VT Sweep come the TV debates as to how many times that phrase gets used I reckon it will be in the hundreds (by all parties) i switched of QT the other night once Grant Shapps used it 3 times in about 45 seconds Apologies. I hate the phrase and rightly should have put it in quotes. It is toxic with sanctimonious suggestions that there is something sacred about families and represents the worst sort of New Labour cant. Edited January 23, 2014 by MakemineVanilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) The issue is the Tory support is clearly centered around the SE plus so are the media so the picture that we see on TV etc is one of things being great whereas the reality is something completely different Well unless we have a very different understanding of geography, that simply isn't true. EDIT: As the picture below from the 2010 General Election illustrates, if Scotland votes for independence this year Labour are finished as a party of Government in England. Edited January 23, 2014 by Awol 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 The Tory party still have a constant and common set of views that do not easily resonate with fair minded people, . no offence mate but what Utter bollocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 The issue is the Tory support is clearly centered around the SE plus so are the media so the picture that we see on TV etc is one of things being great whereas the reality is something completely different Well unless we have a very different understanding of geography, that simply isn't true. EDIT: As the picture below from the 2010 General Election illustrates, if Scotland votes for independence this year Labour are finished as a party of Government in England. Oh Awol - as someone who previously has talked quite a bit about constituencies to try and lay that one out like that shows a complete desperation on your part If you are honestly saying that the South East and home counties especially are not "typical" Tory then your miles away from the UK have certainly clouded your judgment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 The Tory party still have a constant and common set of views that do not easily resonate with fair minded people, . no offence mate but what Utter bollocks That is your opinion - against VT rules but hey ho. Look at the 1 oclock news today they even mentioned the "nasty party" label that the Tory party have and how they are worried that they do not portray themselves to "fair minded people". I appreciate you may not like it but that is how it is. The Tory party is built on a policy of greed for want of a better word, and has been for some time. You only have to look at the parody of them during Thatcher to see that has been around for some while. Look at the policies of IDS, are you honestly saying they are those of a fair minded party? I don't think so. But that is your opinion, as yet I wont be resorting to searing about it or uttering abuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Well, clearly most of the South East does Ian, but then so does most of the rest of England other than the cider guzzlers in the SW, Birmingham and the traditional mining communities either side of the Pennines in Yorkshire and Lancashire. Other than that, it's only Wales and Scotland especially who stop a Conservative whitewash every election. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Drat it's very simple. You said the Tory support was concentrated around the South East and I posted a graphic of the last election results to show that your comment was nonsense. I'm not sure what you think there is to argue about? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Drat it's very simple. You said the Tory support was concentrated around the South East and I posted a graphic of the last election results to show that your comment was nonsense. I'm not sure what you think there is to argue about? Maybe Drat is in Sctotland at the moment?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 The Tory party still have a constant and common set of views that do not easily resonate with fair minded people, . no offence mate but what Utter bollocks That is your opinion - against VT rules but hey ho. Look at the 1 oclock news today they even mentioned the "nasty party" label that the Tory party have and how they are worried that they do not portray themselves to "fair minded people". I appreciate you may not like it but that is how it is. The Tory party is built on a policy of greed for want of a better word, and has been for some time. You only have to look at the parody of them during Thatcher to see that has been around for some while. Look at the policies of IDS, are you honestly saying they are those of a fair minded party? I don't think so. But that is your opinion, as yet I wont be resorting to searing about it or uttering abuse if that is against site rules then I'll wait for a mod to tell me .. however as I said no offence but that is a completely bollocks statement You have basically written a statement saying that every Tory voter isn't a fair minded person ... it's not just a post for effect it also smacks of some form of moral superiority fine you have your views on Labour and the Tory party , that is your right ... but others not agreeing with you doesn't make them any less a human being than you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 The issue is the Tory support is clearly centered around the SE plus so are the media so the picture that we see on TV etc is one of things being great whereas the reality is something completely different Well unless we have a very different understanding of geography, that simply isn't true. EDIT: As the picture below from the 2010 General Election illustrates, if Scotland votes for independence this year Labour are finished as a party of Government in England. ha ha Owned as i think they say in internet land Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Well, clearly most of the South East does Ian, but then so does most of the rest of England other than the cider guzzlers in the SW, Birmingham and the traditional mining communities either side of the Pennines in Yorkshire and Lancashire. Other than that, it's only Wales and Scotland especially who stop a Conservative whitewash every election. Mart - sigh - as you well know the South East is the Tory heartland especially in terms of population - you and Awol (and the likers) are now seemingly saying that each constituency is made up of the same amount of people per area covered? Still if that what floats your and others boat then so be it - reality shows it to be something different and the so called economic upturn that the SE is enjoying is not being replayed with the many many other voters outside of that area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 The issue is the Tory support is clearly centered around the SE plus so are the media so the picture that we see on TV etc is one of things being great whereas the reality is something completely different Well unless we have a very different understanding of geography, that simply isn't true. EDIT: As the picture below from the 2010 General Election illustrates, if Scotland votes for independence this year Labour are finished as a party of Government in England. ha ha Owned as i think they say in internet land Tony I always know when the "tory / Ukip" VT'ers are on the wind up because they arrive together and cause problems. The fact that you and AWOl for example have argued against constituency size and people in them before etc sort of pisses on your chips somewhat. So your attempt to be "with it" with phrases that I suspect are not part of your usual daily usage sort makes you look somewhat silly, but I suppose it's somewhat better than abusive swearing eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 The Tory party still have a constant and common set of views that do not easily resonate with fair minded people, . no offence mate but what Utter bollocks That is your opinion - against VT rules but hey ho. Look at the 1 oclock news today they even mentioned the "nasty party" label that the Tory party have and how they are worried that they do not portray themselves to "fair minded people". I appreciate you may not like it but that is how it is. The Tory party is built on a policy of greed for want of a better word, and has been for some time. You only have to look at the parody of them during Thatcher to see that has been around for some while. Look at the policies of IDS, are you honestly saying they are those of a fair minded party? I don't think so. But that is your opinion, as yet I wont be resorting to searing about it or uttering abuse if that is against site rules then I'll wait for a mod to tell me .. however as I said no offence but that is a completely bollocks statement You have basically written a statement saying that every Tory voter isn't a fair minded person ... it's not just a post for effect it also smacks of some form of moral superiority fine you have your views on Labour and the Tory party , that is your right ... but others not agreeing with you doesn't make them any less a human being than you So Tony like the VT rules you have not read the post either - at least you are consistent on that Where have I said that every Tory voter isn't a fair minded person? - just to help you or if a virus is changing what you see I wrote "The Tory party still have a constant and common set of views that do not easily resonate with fair minded people, .". As said the Tory party leadership were talking about that very subject at lunch time, so maybe you should take a step back have a cup of tea and think about what is being said and the apparent problems that the Tory party have in terms of the public image they portray. I know the leadership are seemingly concerned so you would think and hope that the ordinary supporter (and member?) would also be concerned? As the topic was about the image and the way the election would pan out again maybe stick to that side of things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) The issue is the Tory support is clearly centered around the SE plus so are the media so the picture that we see on TV etc is one of things being great whereas the reality is something completely different Well unless we have a very different understanding of geography, that simply isn't true. EDIT: As the picture below from the 2010 General Election illustrates, if Scotland votes for independence this year Labour are finished as a party of Government in England. ha ha Owned as i think they say in internet land Tony I always know when the "tory / Ukip" VT'ers are on the wind up because they arrive together and cause problems. The fact that you and AWOl for example have argued against constituency size and people in them before etc sort of pisses on your chips somewhat. So your attempt to be "with it" with phrases that I suspect are not part of your usual daily usage sort makes you look somewhat silly, but I suppose it's somewhat better than abusive swearing eh? as you are good with the search function could you locate these posts where I've argued against constituency size as i don't recall them Nobody is on a wind up as I see it .. the problem is you posted a statement The issue is the Tory support is clearly centered around the SE and awol posted a map showing that statement to not actually be true now , if you meant something else , then you should possibly have worded your statement differently .. and no doubt the responses would have been different Edited January 23, 2014 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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