TrentVilla Posted December 9, 2011 Moderator Share Posted December 9, 2011 So Cameron grows a backbone Nothing to do with backbone. Just trying to stop himself being torn apart by the slavering Europhobes behind him. It's simply pandering to the wishes of his bankster mates and funders, no more, no less. He does their bidding at every turn. His actions are not at all to do with what's best for the country, and everything to do with what's best for them. Having said that, the "solution" Merkel et al are proposing is barking mad. It's like a street of neighbours facing an epidemic of burglaries who try to combat it by organising a tidy garden competition, with fines for those who transgress. The solution bears no relation to the problem, and won't help in any respect. Meanwhile Cameron, instead of suggesting action against the burglars, seeks to give them shelter... I was going to say something along these lines only nowhere near as good so instead I will fall in line with the kids and simply say... This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Not surprising to log on and find cries of "Xenephobic", "little Englander" and the usual pathetic insults being thrown around by people who can't accept that their judgement about the EU has been proven wrong - and spectacularly so. Cameron has just done what any remotely sane British PM would have done and protected the largest single UK industry from being raped, with the proceeds being used to prop up failing eurozone profligates. A financial transaction tax in Europe only would drive business from the City (which does a greater volume of financial transactions than the rest of Europe put together) outside the EU to Asia or the US who are not even entertaining the idea. What about a super tax on luxury cars, Frau Merkel, or cheese and red wine, Mr Sarkosy? No, thought not. Cameron has done the right thing, no question at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I do think there needs to be a global tax on the transactions though. banking sector is global therefore you need to regulate global, or they will just move ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 It all seems like a big mess. Cameron hasn't really vetoed anything other than UK participation, has he? The other 23 (or perhaps 26) seem as though they are just going to go ahead. As Peter has suggested above, the 'plan' seems bonkers - wasn't this about addressing the eurozone crisis now and not in May or June of next year? Do any of the participants know where they or we are going or, even, where they want us to go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 ...Cameron has just done what any remotely sane British PM would have done and protected the largest single UK industry from being raped, with the proceeds being used to prop up failing eurozone profligates... The banksters are the ones doing the raping. The people being propped up are the banks and the bondholders who own them, ie the richest few per cent of the population. All this nonsense about propping up "Greece" and "Ireland" is just a smokescreen. It's the wealthy who are being bailed out, and not in any respect the countries where some of these banks currently have their HQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Do any of the participants know where they or we are going or, even, where they want us to go? Seems to me the plan is to keep socialising the toxic debt of the banks, then trying to persuade people that the resulting deficit in the public accounts requires austerity to correct it. Result - banks that should fail stagger on for a little longer, bondholders who should have lost their investment are protected, public spending is cut, people are more frightened about their futures and therefore more cowed in their wage negotiations, less confident about the ability of the state to provide pensions and health care for them and more likely to take out private provision and slip back into the debt that is the real root of this problem, the private debt without which the banks can't make the ludicrous profits they have been making. The politicians in this and other countries are captured by and in the pocket of the financiers. Their actions are all about the benefit to the super-rich on whose coats tails they cling, the group whose outer margins they hope to slime their way into, as Blair and Mandelson have done. They impoverish their own people for the benefit of themselves and the clique they suck up to. Their actions are treasonous, by any reasonable definition of the term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 9, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted December 9, 2011 For once, I somewhat feel sory for Cameron. He could do no right in this decision. Even what he's calling the right decision (to protect one of our most important sectors) could work out harming it - Britain will not be present at meetings that will affect the European economy enormously. Given that we have, in London, Europes premiere financial capital, Britain not being able to attend those meetings could bite that standing and could work out harming us anyway. He was ****. So, seemingly, is Europe. The way the Union works, with it's size and complexity, means it cannot do things quickly, which at this moment in time the markets desire. A commentator last week on Radio 5 from the financial world said, to paraphrase, 'Europe cannot appease the financial market by putting forth proposals for a year from now'. But thats all it can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Just trying to stop himself being torn apart by the slavering Europhobes behind him. so some form of determination , strength of character or in other words some backbone then , knew you'd agree But ignoring the silliness of disagreeing for the sake of it , it does raise an interesting question , has Cameron doomed Britain (and Europe) in order to appease his party and stay as PM ...or has he performed a master stoke given Britain a free-trade relationship with Europe, and saved us from climbing on board the Titanic ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Cameron has completely shot himself in the foot, lost almost all allies in Europe, proved our veto to be useless, now there's no block against 'Merkosy' to offer any real alternative or solutions and our banks are no more secure from a Tobin tax. Playing his cards too early springs to mind. He's ruled out leaving the EU and a referendum "We're not going ahead with the treaty. Others are. It will mean big changes for them. We're not changing." All of this to simply appease his backbenchers and put Britain out in the cold is obscene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanishVillan Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 The other 23 (or perhaps 26) seem as though they are just going to go ahead. They can´t move much more than a few commas before it trickers a public vote here. Our PM already went way too far with her promises, in many peoples mind. New government, after ten years of hell and they carry right on pretending Danes voted yes to the Euro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 has Cameron doomed Britain (and Europe) in order to appease his party and stay as PM ...or has he performed a master stoke given Britain a free-trade relationship with Europe, and saved us from climbing on board the Titanic ? Neither. His antics don't help anything, but neither would going along with the crass and anti-democratic nonsense being imposed by Merkel and her little marionette. He has no real disagreement with what the EU is now proposing - austerity, propping up zombie banks, cutting back social provision and the rest. He is in no respect trying to stop them doing it, nor is he making any argument for a different approach. He's just trying to keep the City sweet and keep his own right wing onside. Vision, leadership, courage, all utterly absent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 so what should he have done? said your plan is about as useful as one of Baldricks? split euro in two? Germany and France leave? it's quite clear adding more funds into the black hole doesn't work . it's clear no one has a clue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Some of the things he should have done would include: * support Germany in calling for bondholders to take a hit - a position they seem to have dropped for lack of support * call for a Debt Commission to unravel the tangle of private debt, separating "good debt" from what is frankly illegal and fraudulent, or "odious" in the technospeak * push for all dodgy debt to be written off * seek support to rebuild an accountable, responsible and properly regulated banking sector * expose the lie that public deficits are the problem * seek international co-operation on cracking down on tax dodging * develop proposals for issuing currency without at the same time issuing bonds, thereby undermining the ability of bond markets and speculators to wage war against sovereign states That would be a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAFC2000 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Good luck to to the 2 million UK folk whos jobs rely on trading to and from the EU. If you thought times were hard now you aint seen nothing yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAFC2000 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 ...Cameron has just done what any remotely sane British PM would have done and protected the largest single UK industry from being raped, with the proceeds being used to prop up failing eurozone profligates... The banksters are the ones doing the raping. The people being propped up are the banks and the bondholders who own them, ie the richest few per cent of the population. All this nonsense about propping up "Greece" and "Ireland" is just a smokescreen. It's the wealthy who are being bailed out, and not in any respect the countries where some of these banks currently have their HQ. Peterns spot on again pal. When will people learn that Cameron represents the o.5% richest in the country....! I guess a lot of people will have to learn the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAFC2000 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 The biggest trader with the UK is........... The Euro zone. Nice work Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 The biggest trader with the UK is........... The Euro zone. Nice work Dave.Did Cameron come out and say we weren't going to trade with Europe anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAFC2000 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Wake up and smell the coffee sun beam...! Quote from the Belgian PM. " This is not an intelligent move" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 In his opinion. However, as far as our interests are concerned, it's a very good move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAFC2000 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 The biggest trader with the UK is........... The Euro zone. Nice work Dave.Did Cameron come out and say we weren't going to trade with Europe anymore? Whats your point: 1- Europe are more likely to do more trade and make things easy as a result of this move. 2- Europe is not more likely to do more trade and is more likley to make things difficult after we have shoved to fingers up at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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