economic situation is dire

[Eames]

You wont find me disagreeing with much there Bicks.

Edit whoops. Not quite what I meant to say.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Eames

[tonyh29]

 

 

On the topic of energy, I have just read a Green Peace anti-fracking petition. Part of the reasoning was that the many wells that will need to be sunk will scar the landscape. This statement immediately made me think of wind farms!

I am neither pro or anti fracking, by the way, because I haven't read enough about it.

I'm probably just being a weirdo but I quite like the rather imposing look of them (whilst accepting that they may not suit in some locations).

 

Its hilarious the outrage they cause. There is a proposal to build one near us in Ince Blundell and the inbred slack jawed locals are up in arms (each one with 5 fingers and 2 thumbs at the end of it). They go through the usual blot on the landscape arguments which as usual all look fine on paper until you actually look at this magnificent countryside thats its going to be a blight upon. Its the West Lancashire Plain, its as flat as a witches tit, a less inspiring landscape than even Norfolk, there's a bit of a hillock around Ormskirk which you can just about make out in the distance on a good day, its bloody perfect for a wind farm. Hell its more likely to become a tourist attraction and some clever individual might even open a shop there as a result, that'll save them a 2 mile drive for a loaf of bread but these dim wits would rather look out over miles and miles of diddly squat, then again electricity is rather a new fangled thing for them and as for gas, thats what the cows make.

 

 

I thought the objection was that they are simply a pants idea

 

overlooking the cost v traditional methods isn't it the case that they only produce extra energy and not base load electricity (i.e they support existing power sources not replace them )

 

I think tourist attraction is stretching credibility of your argument rather  .. but mind you people have been known to visit the tate modern so proving  people will go visit any old crap , so you could be right

[tonyh29]

 

ATOS being another good example. Of course their needs to be some assessment of needs when it comes to disability benefit, but again, the execution of the policy has been terrible.

You do realise there always was assessment before ATOS. ATOS never has been about proper assessment, its been about getting figures down by any means necessary, even if that means sending people still going through chemo and radiotherapy to meetings with ATOS when its difficult enough for them to get out of bed, let alone catch 2 trains and 5 buses to get to where ATOS deem to be a convenient place. Its certainly not about cutting costs, how can this system be more cost effective than a doctor (something ATOS rarely employ) saying, this person isn't fit for work. They sent Paddy (RIP) to an ATOS meeting with a brain tumour during his chemo cycle and he had to go miles by public transport otherwise he would have had his money stopped.

The whole ATOS thing is an attack on the vulnerable, nothing more nothing less. Has anyone worked out how much its cost vs how much its saved yet? And how many people have died as a result?

 

we see examples of stupidity in the ATOS method  , we read about the woman who committed suicide because of the bedroom tax

 

and they get cited as examples of why Tory's (and their supporters ) are evil but it's a focus on the exception rather than the rule

 

 

Does anyone want to see someone with a brain tumour told they have to travel for an assessment  .. NO

does anyone want some woman who for reasons known only to her decided to commit suicide  ... No

 

does anyone want someone who purposely fakes a back injury and claims benefit money whilst they clearly shouldn't  have it stopped ..yes

 

the problem is in the clamour to implement populist policy ( and it is , otherwise political parties wouldn't implement it by and large ... the labour shadow bint Rachel Reeves came out the other month and said Labour would be tougher than the Tories on benefits did she not)  they've harmed a genuine % along the way  ... now by and large that is going to happen no matter what party , no matter what policy  ... war in Iraq for example .. difficult decision , arguably good intentions  ... how many innocent dead as a side effect ?  but Labour supporters on here want to shout about the nasty party whilst taking a moral high ground about how their moral compass is better than someone who puts an X in the blue box rather than the red box

 

it's all bollocks , it really is  ...

[bickster]

I think tourist attraction is stretching credibility of your argument rather  .. but mind you people have been known to visit the tate modern so proving  people will go visit any old crap , so you could be right

I think I was being a tad facetious, you'd probably have to live here to understand though. People north of Crosby really do live in a small small world, where they think they have to go shopping in Dickensian garb just because the local Chamber of Commerce deems it to be Dick(head)ensian Day. They are also protesting in my village about a planning application for 13 new dwellings, a whole 13. And the protest is solely based on the strain it will cause on the local amenities with the potential for less room to park around the village green (which is triangular and about three car lengths in each dimension. Our amenities are;- a shop, a post office, a hairdressers, a chemist, a doctors that no-one uses because its reputation precedes it and a pub with a HUGE car park and so few customers that three of said dwellings are proposed for the beer garden.

I don't think I'm liked by the local action committee as I told them how ludicrous their argument is based on the idea that more people living here might just keep the pub open a few more years (I never set foot in the place either)

[bickster]

Does anyone want to see someone with a brain tumour told they have to travel for an assessment  .. NO

Clearly ATOS do (and by implication the govt), Paddy even tried to get out of it by asking them to read the case file, they told him he had to go or his benefit would be stopped

[tonyh29]

 

Does anyone want to see someone with a brain tumour told they have to travel for an assessment  .. NO

Clearly ATOS do (and by implication the govt), Paddy even tried to get out of it by asking them to read the case file, they told him he had to go or his benefit would be stopped

 

you do know that Labour awarded ATOS the contract so the implication isn't just "the govt" 

(contract was awarded in March 2005 )

 

but that ( the line you've quoted) wasn't really the point I was making in my post

[bickster]

Does anyone want to see someone with a brain tumour told they have to travel for an assessment  .. NO

Clearly ATOS do (and by implication the govt), Paddy even tried to get out of it by asking them to read the case file, they told him he had to go or his benefit would be stopped

you do know that Labour awarded ATOS the contract so the implication isn't just "the govt" 

(contract was awarded in March 2005 )

 

but that ( the line you've quoted) wasn't really the point I was making in my post

You do know, I don't support Labour. I could even have put either Tory Govt such is the contempt I hold the last lot in. They are still the govt no matter which colour tie they wear, they are also both Tory in philosophy, they also are both responsible for this outrageous policy.

If it wasn't the point you were making, why say it unless of course the education cuts suffered by your school preclude you from being able to express yourself to the degree necessary to express your point correctly, then you have my every sympathy

[peterms]

I am neither pro or anti fracking, by the way, because I haven't read enough about it.

 

There's a piece here from the Transition movement, making the case against fracking.

 

In very broad terms, there are two directions to go in.  One is continued dependence on environmentally damaging energy which creates large profits (at our expense) for big companies, and leaves us vulnerable to market swings and supply shortages and price hikes caused by events in distant countries.  The other is moving towards environmentally sustainable, small-scale energy production in community ownership, meaning the benefits accrue to us rather than big business, and we have far more resilient energy supply as well.

 

The government is choosing to set up a system of bribing communities and councils to take decisions which will give them short-term financial gain at long-term financial and environmental cost, further transferring both resources and power away from us and towards big business.  It's the same kind of short-term thinking that prioritises financial speculation over infrastructure, quick profit over capacity-building, asset-stripping over investment.  Fracking, and the capture of government by the financial interests behind it, is just one more manifestation of a long trend.

[tonyh29]

Does anyone want to see someone with a brain tumour told they have to travel for an assessment .. NO

Clearly ATOS do (and by implication the govt), Paddy even tried to get out of it by asking them to read the case file, they told him he had to go or his benefit would be stopped

you do know that Labour awarded ATOS the contract so the implication isn't just "the govt"

(contract was awarded in March 2005 )

but that ( the line you've quoted) wasn't really the point I was making in my post

You do know, I don't support Labour. I could even have put either Tory Govt such is the contempt I hold the last lot in. They are still the govt no matter which colour tie they wear, they are also both Tory in philosophy, they also are both responsible for this outrageous policy.

If it wasn't the point you were making, why say it unless of course the education cuts suffered by your school preclude you from being able to express yourself to the degree necessary to express your point correctly, then you have my every sympathy

I would suggest you leave the comedy for those that can ( sit down Drat )

My point was about government policies , about accusations that supporters of a particular party have no moral compass , about effects of government policies

You have isolated it and focused it down to 1 person .. Which wasn't my point

Edit : I am aware that you are not pro labour ,but as we were in Pedant mode I just thought id clear up that's it was all parties rather than " the govt "

Edited January 24, 2014 by tonyh29

[bickster]

You have isolated it and focused it down to 1 person .. Which wasn't my point

My point was that it isn't one person, I just cited one example, someone many of us knew. I could have mentioned the missus but few on here know her. I could have mentioned the many other cancer sufferers I've come across whilst sat there with my missus when she was getting chemo, I could even have brought my mates missus a nurse who now works for ATOS and will tell you the exact same thing as will a friend from Uni who is now Liverpool's main consultant on Breast Cancer. It isn't one case its a huge amount of them. And as an aside, my father who died of cancer under the previous govt got his benefits without it, even though Labour had started the ATOS debacle because cancer patients were exempt, this government changed that.

[bickster]

Edit : I am aware that you are not pro labour ,but as we were in Pedant mode I just thought id clear up that's it was all parties rather than " the govt "

I refer you to my previous statement about education You need to distinguish between the govt and this govt, it didn't need clearing up.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

The 'aesthetic' argument against wind farms and the like are just hokum conjured up by numpties without any real argument.

 

People don't like change, is all it comes down to. That conservative nature in people is proving to be very costly.

[tonyh29]

 

Edit : I am aware that you are not pro labour ,but as we were in Pedant mode I just thought id clear up that's it was all parties rather than " the govt "

I refer you to my previous statement about education You need to distinguish between the govt and this govt, it didn't need clearing up.

 

I refer you to my middle finger

[chrisp65]

the energy debate is going nowhere until we have the first evening without television for the masses

 

the next day we'll be burning old tyres in town centres and meadows if we can make it produce electricity

[tonyh29]

the energy debate is going nowhere until we have the first evening without television for the masses

 

the next day we'll be burning old tyres in town centres and meadows if we can make it produce electricity

 

I believe Ed expects to be in office on May 8th 2015  .. get stock piling those tyres ..should have a cheap surplus of them in SA now Winnie has gone straight

[mockingbird_franklin]

the energy debate is going nowhere until we have the first evening without television for the masses

 

the next day we'll be burning old tyres in town centres and meadows if we can make it produce electricity

If we can make it a few continuous weeks without television the masses might get a life instead.

[chrisp65]

 

the energy debate is going nowhere until we have the first evening without television for the masses

 

the next day we'll be burning old tyres in town centres and meadows if we can make it produce electricity

 

I believe Ed expects to be in office on May 8th 2015  .. get stock piling those tyres ..should have a cheap surplus of them in SA now Winnie has gone straight

 

 

I believe the hlaf time electricity spike during next year's FA Cup Final (Red Bull Villa 4: Man City 0), will be the tipping point.

[Kingfisher]

http://nationalgrid.stephenmorley.org/

I've been looking at this since November. I was quite impressed to see the wind power figures during the months of November and December.

We were creating up to 16% of our energy from wind during those windy months. That's pretty good going. It rarely dropped below 10%. When it's not windy I've noticed wind energy can drop to around 2% or lower.

I think we could create a good mix of predominantly green energy in this country if the will was there. I think we could reduce our consumption if the will was there.

[chrisp65]

there are regular attempts to harness the Severn - but we can't do that because of the birdies

apparently off shore wind farms might confuse porpoises

on shore wind farms upset idiots that think the current landscape is 'natural'

lord forbid we burn wood chip

can't burn our own rubbish locally with town sized energy stations, the power station will look bad and be built on a field and might make smoke

coal, obviously, is now suspected of killing everyone and causing Jimmy Saville

fracking will apparently cause another Pompei

 

perhaps, just perhaps, we have to look at using less energy if we clearly don't want to produce more energy

[Awol]

there are regular attempts to harness the Severn - but we can't do that because of the birdies

apparently off shore wind farms might confuse porpoises

on shore wind farms upset idiots that think the current landscape is 'natural'

lord forbid we burn wood chip

can't burn our own rubbish locally with town sized energy stations, the power station will look bad and be built on a field and might make smoke

coal, obviously, is now suspected of killing everyone and causing Jimmy Saville

fracking will apparently cause another Pompei

 

perhaps, just perhaps, we have to look at using less energy if we clearly don't want to produce more energy

I've been looking at a localised system for implementation in areas with little existing infrastructure that super heats any old crap anaerobically with 0% emissions and creates natural gas for power. The only by-product is an inert and harmless gravel like substance that can used in aggregate.   It's not cheap but if implemented locally in a country like the UK it would solve multiple problems at a stroke, so you have to wonder why solutions like this aren't seriously considered.