snowychap Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Merely trying to understand where you are coming from - as I am struggling to understand the logic. Some elucidation would be appreciated. I think I have explained myself perfectly well. I do not agree with the idea of presumed consent. I voluntarily consent to donate my organs because I think it is a good thing to do. As soon as this consent becomes presumed as opposed to voluntarily given then I will demur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 If I required a donated organ, I should be entitled to it (when it comes to my turn, of course) regardless of whether I'd signed up to do it myself. but what if there aren't enough organs? at the moment clinical need but surely those who would nto donate woul find the thought of other body parts in thier body wrong ? maybe. depends if they were desperate and about to croak ... I (as a doctor/politician) would find it quite difficult to morally justify giving an organ to someone who has expressly opted-out of donating their own organs in the even of their demise, if there were any sort of shortage ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I feel physically sick at some of the views on here. Disgusting self self self attitude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Merely trying to understand where you are coming from - as I am struggling to understand the logic. Some elucidation would be appreciated. I think I have explained myself perfectly well. I do not agree with the idea of presumed consent. I voluntarily consent to donate my organs because I think it is a good thing to do. As soon as this consent becomes presumed as opposed to voluntarily given then I will demur. I get that, as you say - that part you have made quite clear. I just don't get why that is your viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I (as a doctor/politician) would find it quite difficult to morally justify giving an organ to someone who has expressly opted-out of donating their own organs in the even of their demise, if there were any sort of shortage ..... Would you also find it difficult to morally justify giving an organ to someone who hasn't opted into the current system? (Not having a go, Jon - I am interested to see if this applies). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 If I required a donated organ, I should be entitled to it (when it comes to my turn, of course) regardless of whether I'd signed up to do it myself. but what if there aren't enough organs? at the moment clinical need but surely those who would nto donate woul find the thought of other body parts in thier body wrong ? maybe. depends if they were desperate and about to croak ... I (as a doctor/politician) would find it quite difficult to morally justify giving an organ to someone who has expressly opted-out of donating their own organs in the even of their demise, if there were any sort of shortage ..... so would I if I was a doctor but I am talking about the patient themselves making a descion what I don't get is this big government idea when if I am not correct the donor register is independent ? surely we are all opted into many things, taxes, NI etc. somethig that will save lives and we all hear big government arguments when that is not the truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I feel physically sick at some of the views on here. If you kick the bucket due to that sickness, can i have some of your organs, Ian? i'll take the liver, depending on how much you drink. Don't think you smoke, so the lungs would be a decent acquisition too :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I feel physically sick at some of the views on here. Disgusting self self self attitude Would you care to point out where this attitude is and which views make you 'physically sick'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrogers Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 If Paddys article there is anything to go by, the presumed consent is at the will of the relatives. If they say no when you hop the twig, you're out. But that certainly wouldn't lead to less people doing it than do currently. And as the article says, it wouldn't necessarily make any more either. And leading on from that, it mya have something to do with, as I suggested, not many people are actually want to donate and when asked, said they'd opt out. But that certainly wouldn't lead to less people doing it than do currently. And as the article says, it wouldn't necessarily make any more either. No. But logic would suggest that it would probably increase, even if not by much. For example, under presumed consent somebody would get my organs. At the moment, nobody would. So chalk up one extra as a bare minimum. And chalk up one less as I would opt out. Evens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I (as a doctor/politician) would find it quite difficult to morally justify giving an organ to someone who has expressly opted-out of donating their own organs in the even of their demise, if there were any sort of shortage ..... Would you also find it difficult to morally justify giving an organ to someone who hasn't opted into the current system? (Not having a go, Jon - I am interested to see if this applies). no. Because they have not opted out. they just haven't opted in explicitly, so to speak. Taking my example, i have never opted in, as i don't like to think about my own death and have just never got round to doing it. But, if i were to die (which obviously will happen at some point) i would be absolutely fine with doctors using any part of my body for the medical benefit of others. becuase i'd be dead, it wouldn't matter or bother me. i think there are a lot of people who maybe aren't that bothered, and would not bother to opt-out. we're a very apathetic nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 If Paddys article there is anything to go by, the presumed consent is at the will of the relatives. If they say no when you hop the twig, you're out. But that certainly wouldn't lead to less people doing it than do currently. And as the article says, it wouldn't necessarily make any more either. And leading on from that, it mya have something to do with, as I suggested, not many people are actually want to donate and when asked, said they'd opt out. But that certainly wouldn't lead to less people doing it than do currently. And as the article says, it wouldn't necessarily make any more either. No. But logic would suggest that it would probably increase, even if not by much. For example, under presumed consent somebody would get my organs. At the moment, nobody would. So chalk up one extra as a bare minimum. And chalk up one less as I would opt out. Evens you missed snowy's post Nick. so organ donations are now 1 down. but i'll donate, so we're back at evens :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 you missed snowy's post Nick. so organ donations are now 1 down. but i'll donate, so we're back at evens Smile Wink Plus I'm not sure they'll accept organs shipped in from the antipodes. 2-1 I'm sure that this is why the poll was created in the first place though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 are relatives of those who doated allowed to meet those who recieved the organs, I would want to do that if ever I was in that position from both angles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 no. Because they have not opted out. they just haven't opted in explicitly, so to speak. That's fine (and I wasn't expecting you to answer differently - I wouldn't have either). Taking my example, i have never opted in, as i don't like to think about my own death and have just never got round to doing it. But, if i were to die (which obviously will happen at some point) i would be absolutely fine with doctors using any part of my body for the medical benefit of others. You are thinking about your own mortality as you write this and as you ponder the question upon which this thread is based, so is it just about apathy? I'm really not sure that I'd be comfortable about accepting organs in a situation where it is quite possible that the person from whom the organs came did not explicitly wish to donate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Haven't had time to read the thread but opt out system for me and I wouldn't. If I'm dead slice and dice me and take what you can use. I wouldn't need it anymore and if it helps someone live then crack on. I'd steer clear of my lungs and liver though, a smoker with a liking for single malt. The rest is A1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddy Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 Can someone clarify for me whether at the moment the family get the say over the dead person in either direction? What I mean is if I die without carrying a card they can give them away, or if I carry a card they can keep them? Or is it just one way? I'm fairly sure it must be both but thought I'd just clarify it. I've voted 'Opt out (which I wouldn't)' though the choice I want isn't there - once your dead, the medical profession can take whatever it needs to save other people's lives. I thought of that option once I'd posted the poll and I can't change it now. Have to admit I didn't think anyone would go for that though. Anyone know if there's an age limit on organ donation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I would be totally in favour of donations being the norm unless you opt out. Infact bring back the death penalty and you have a ready made source of organs on tap. At least the evil bastards "give something back to society". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddy Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 I would be totally in favour of donations being the norm unless you opt out. Infact bring back the death penalty and you have a ready made source of organs on tap. At least the evil bastards "give something back to society". That's a terrible idea. Have you never watched the Simpsons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-Villan Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I've voted 'Opt out (which I wouldn't)' though the choice I want isn't there - once your dead, the medical profession can take whatever it needs to save other people's lives. I thought of that option once I'd posted the poll and I can't change it now. Have to admit I didn't think anyone would go for that though. Really? I wouldn't have expected it to be popular, but I'd be surprised if I was the only one. I just believe that somebody's life comes over somebody's feelings (especially when that person is dead). And by quite a large margin too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturdaygig Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 It reduces my faith in humanity that people will argue the toss over this principal and that principal rather than do everything they can to make sure their organs can be used by others after they die. Simple as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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