Stevo985 Posted July 6 VT Supporter Share Posted July 6 4 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Traditional One Nation Conservatives would probably disagree with you, and talk about how they aspire to better things for Britain, increasing opportunity, prosperity and yes, personal wealth, but for the general population not just one oneself. It's not my politics, and I don't think there's a coherent argument for them after the last 14 years, but that's what they'd have traditionally stood for, and probably where they need to get back to if they've got any hopes of forming another government. Yeah I edited my post. It was too much of a generalisation. But I do think that too many of this country vote for their own personal interested and not what will actually make the country better. And most of the time that tactic falls onto the right of the spectrum. IMO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 6 VT Supporter Share Posted July 6 1 hour ago, limpid said: Especially as postal voting is simple. Is there a reason why postal voting would be less open to abuse than online voting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danwichmann Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 8 minutes ago, sidcow said: Is there a reason why postal voting would be less open to abuse than online voting? I guess because postal voting abuse would need to actually be done physically, where as online voting could potentially all be done by algorithms. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 36 minutes ago, bickster said: Not seeing the issue here. Security of official ballot papers only should be fairly simple. Rejected papers for whatever reason can still be scrutinised by hand. Every paper is scrutinised and counted at the same time. Electronic counting would only be useful after that first count. Sometimes there is only 1 count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 6 Moderator Share Posted July 6 5 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: Every paper is scrutinised and counted at the same time. Electronic counting would only be useful after that first count. Sometimes there is only 1 count. By a human, automation would speed it up. Exam boards have been marking multiple choice exam papers by automated process since before I sat my O-Levels. This isn’t new funky technology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mjmooney Posted July 6 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted July 6 Good summing-up piece in The Guardian. This bit made me chuckle: Quote Meanwhile, it’s incredible to think that only a short while ago we thought we’d eradicated measles and Nigel Farage. Both have now been brought back, largely by the same people. 2 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted July 6 Author Administrator Share Posted July 6 38 minutes ago, sidcow said: Is there a reason why postal voting would be less open to abuse than online voting? It's the same paperwork, with the same checks (one additional step), unique per person and assigned by identity. I'm an IT security architect and in my opinion it would be significantly harder to secure any online system than a paper based one. Primarily as we do not have a digital identity to build it on. Now, had we stayed in the EU, we'd now have EIDAS and we could build something secure based on that. https://ec.europa.eu/digital-building-blocks/sites/display/EUDIGITALIDENTITYWALLET/EU+Digital+Identity+Wallet+Home Quote Your personal data tells your life’s story; you should be the one to control it and decide when and with whom your data is shared. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 Refreshing to just see a PM press conference where you aren't rolling your eyes or wanting to punch a wall. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 6 VT Supporter Share Posted July 6 1 hour ago, Davkaus said: Traditional One Nation Conservatives would probably disagree with you, and talk about how they aspire to better things for Britain, increasing opportunity, prosperity and yes, personal wealth, but for the general population not just one oneself. It's not my politics, and I don't think there's a coherent argument for them after the last 14 years, but that's what they'd have traditionally stood for, and probably where they need to get back to if they've got any hopes of forming another government. Presumably the problem is, one Nation Tories may believe this, and create and environment to allow it. But the vast majority of people actually making the money don't see any obligation to others and do everything to keep as much as it for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 6 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: Refreshing to just see a PM press conference where you aren't rolling your eyes or wanting to punch a wall. It’s like we’ve started watching a movie. It’s pure escapism. Am starting to think we didn’t know we needed this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 1 hour ago, mjmooney said: Because of the varying geographical size of the constituencies, the second map still looks more blue than it should. If you diagram it by actual seats (regardless of area), the result is even more stark: Shows how small the populations are in mid wales and the highlands! I remember old Charlie Kennedy's constituency seemed to have been practically a quarter of Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danwichmann Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 Is the Guardian website broken or are well really still waiting for a result from Inverness, Skye and West Rossshire? Could still change everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 Just now, Danwichmann said: Is the Guardian website broken or are well really still waiting for a result from Inverness, Skye and West Rossshire? Could still change everything They started a third count at this morning, so should declare at some point soon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 1 hour ago, bickster said: By a human, automation would speed it up. Exam boards have been marking multiple choice exam papers by automated process since before I sat my O-Levels. This isn’t new funky technology It's not funky new technology. But to my knowledge its not used in any constituency. There must be a reason for that. Its probably not allowed in legislation but legislation can be changed. I also guess that it's not worth the cost for something needed for a couple of hours every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 1 hour ago, Jareth said: It’s like we’ve started watching a movie. It’s pure escapism. Am starting to think we didn’t know we needed this. It's almost like going from Gerrard to Unai, just instantly realising the nightmare is over. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ml1dch Posted July 6 Popular Post Share Posted July 6 Another sad loss I've not seen mentioned anywhere, but I've just remembered to check out, North West Leicestershire was narrowly taken by Labour 34 - 32 against the Tories. Incumbent MP Andrew Bridgen came sixth with 3.2% and lost his deposit. 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one_ian_taylor Posted July 6 VT Supporter Share Posted July 6 8 hours ago, Davkaus said: Another vote for .gov.uk, I've been quite impressed by most of my interactions with it. I think electronic or online voting needs to be solving some compelling problem to justify trying to solve it. There's mixed data on whether it actually increases turnout, and the cons are it opening us up to new risks, as well as high costs. We could spend billions trying to replace papers and pencils and not really end up in a significantly better position. I like pencil and paper voting, and don't mind that it's the least convenient of the options. Good to have the choice, but I enjoy the ritual of voting in person. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCU Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 Tories gone, England through to the semifinals… this isn’t turning into a bad weekend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 I think this was an election full of tactical voting, well at least on one side. It looks like the lib dems and the greens to a some extent benefitted from some traditional labour voters in certain consistencies. In seats where the libdems came second in 2019 they gained an average of 9%, whereas nationally it was less than a percent. Similarly, for Labour their vote went up 6% in places they came second last time whereas nationally it was less than two percent. But on the other side Reform clearly ate into the Tory vote and seats. This could be a major factor in who the conservatives select as their next leader. Do they want to try to attract the 4 million voters that went to Reform? Or will that result in the remaining centre-right who voted for them to give up and go elsewhere? I think the green vote has gone a bit unnoticed due to the talk on reform. They got 7% of the vote, way up from last time. They could be a force in the future in more areas. In the 18 to 24 age group only Labour got more of the vote. The tories have got a major demographic issue. Only the over-65 did they poll the highest at 38%, and only the 55 to 64 age group did they only get over 20% of the vote. Even in the mid age group of 45 to 54 they got just 18% of the vote which is staggering. That is usually the age you give up on your youthful ideals and become a tory. The decrease in homeownership at this age bracket must be a factor. All of the data is horrific for the conservatives. Regarding social class the tories did even come top in the AB class with Labour a full 9 points ahead of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 6 Moderator Share Posted July 6 3 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: I think this was an election full of tactical voting, well at least on one side. It looks like the lib dems and the greens to a some extent benefitted from some traditional labour voters in certain consistencies. In seats where the libdems came second in 2019 they gained an average of 9%, whereas nationally it was less than a percent. Similarly, for Labour their vote went up 6% in places they came second last time whereas nationally it was less than two percent. But on the other side Reform clearly ate into the Tory vote and seats. This could be a major factor in who the conservatives select as their next leader. Do they want to try to attract the 4 million voters that went to Reform? Or will that result in the remaining centre-right who voted for them to give up and go elsewhere? I think the green vote has gone a bit unnoticed due to the talk on reform. They got 7% of the vote, way up from last time. They could be a force in the future in more areas. In the 18 to 24 age group only Labour got more of the vote. The tories have got a major demographic issue. Only the over-65 did they poll the highest at 38%, and only the 55 to 64 age group did they only get over 20% of the vote. Even in the mid age group of 45 to 54 they got just 18% of the vote which is staggering. That is usually the age you give up on your youthful ideals and become a tory. The decrease in homeownership at this age bracket must be a factor. All of the data is horrific for the conservatives. Regarding social class the tories did even come top in the AB class with Labour a full 9 points ahead of them. 1. Even if you count all the seats where Reform allowed in Labour over the Tories because you add the Tory and Reform vote yardda yadda. Labour would still have won 2. The LibDems lost more votes through tactical voting than Labour gained in the opposite direction 3. I've been talking about the Tory demographic timebomb for ages, it's real, once the numbers have been crunched I reckon the crossover point is now around or over 70 years old. We are now dealing with pensioners that were kids under Thatcher, they've never voted Tory in big numbers. The Tory Party is dying and it cannot survive. Please make the next leader a complete nutter to speed the inevitable process up 4. The rise in the Green vote is hilarious tbh, an alliance of disaffected Tory NIMBYs and Corbynista cranks. 2 of the 3 gains were Tory seats and the other in Bristol was as much down to boundary changes in the Greens favour as it was Debonnaire's horrendous personanality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts