ml1dch Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Reform pricks taking their fifth seat. South Basildon and East Thurrock for James McMurdock following a recount. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 31 minutes ago, wishywashy said: Not a single constituency where last season's Football League clubs were based went Conservative. Pretty wild. Even more reason to hate Bromley for getting promoted and making it 1/92 next season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) 15 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Even more reason to hate Bromley for getting promoted and making it 1/92 next season. Rupert Lowe formerly of Southampton chairman and RFU is now Reform MP. Edited July 5 by The Fun Factory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted July 5 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5 Farage already saying he wants to be on the 'national stage', so won't have time for seeing his constituents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted July 5 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5 Last word from Pie (sweary, as per): 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 5 Moderator Share Posted July 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 For the sake of discussion, if you’re prepared to describe labour as left, the left took 90% of the votes in Islington North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 1 hour ago, sidcow said: Well great. I'm sure you will be just as vocal in praising them if they actually do some of these things and you won't just sit there pretending it's not happening. I’m happy to say yes, I know nothing tangible will change 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 5 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5 11 minutes ago, paul514 said: I’m happy to say yes, I know nothing tangible will change I'll happily admit if it's proven the world is round as I know for certainty it's flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 5 Moderator Share Posted July 5 5 minutes ago, paul514 said: I’m happy to say yes, I know nothing tangible will change A lot of people think that, but if we look back at any 5 year period, there’s always loads of change. If you take a two term period, then the amount of change is always huge. Whether all that change is to someone’s liking or not is up to the individual, but in the last 5 years we’ve seen immigration soar, the small boats start and grow, the economy crashed, schools crumbling, the NHS break, Windfall taxes on energy companies, a footballer shame the government into providing school meals for kids, rising standards in literacy in schools, a revised focus on defence, the judicial system break, mass strikes on transport and in hospitals… and so on and so on. Stuff happens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 4 minutes ago, blandy said: A lot of people think that, but if we look back at any 5 year period, there’s always loads of change. If you take a two term period, then the amount of change is always huge. Whether all that change is to someone’s liking or not is up to the individual, but in the last 5 years we’ve seen immigration soar, the small boats start and grow, the economy crashed, schools crumbling, the NHS break, Windfall taxes on energy companies, a footballer shame the government into providing school meals for kids, rising standards in literacy in schools, a revised focus on defence, the judicial system break, mass strikes on transport and in hospitals… and so on and so on. Stuff happens. Yeah but you can't say they're all the same if you look at actual things that happen. That's ridiculous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) 22 minutes ago, paul514 said: I’m happy to say yes, I know nothing tangible will change Just for the sake of argument, what are the tangible changes that you would be pleased to see? Because it's probably in the eye of the beholder. If the tangible things that other people want to see changed happen, but you don't recognise them as "tangible", that doesn't mean they're not doing what they were elected to do. If, for example they take the decision to move closer to Europe on youth mobility, security and harmonisation of agricultural and chemical regulation then that is a tangible change from the previous Government, and one that will probably be popular with the majority of their voters. It might not be popular with you, but that doesn't mean it's not a change of direction that will make a big difference to a lot of people. If the change that you want is "leave the ECHR and freeze immigration" as per the Reform manifesto for example, then no there probably won't be any change. But the people who gave him a massive majority aren't looking for that sort of "tangible change", are they? Edited July 5 by ml1dch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 5 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5 Once your arguing about what the definition of change is you know the party using the word as their slogan is setting you up for extremely thin gruel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 8 minutes ago, Chindie said: Once your arguing about what the definition of change is you know the party using the word as their slogan is setting you up for extremely thin gruel. Not really. If what you care about is wealth inequality and they change a load of stuff about wealth inequality then for those people things have changed. If what you care about is immigration and you change a load of stuff about immigration then for those people things have changed. If you don't care about immigration and they change a load of stuff regarding immigration then for you things haven't changed. You can chuck as much Weltschmerz at it as you like, but it's an abstract concept that will mean different things to different people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one_ian_taylor Posted July 5 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5 1 hour ago, ml1dch said: Even more reason to hate Bromley for getting promoted and making it 1/92 next season. Bromley? Splitters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one_ian_taylor Posted July 5 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5 5 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Not really. If what you care about is wealth inequality and they change a load of stuff about wealth inequality then for those people things have changed. If what you care about is immigration and you change a load of stuff about immigration then for those people things have changed. If you don't care about immigration and they change a load of stuff regarding immigration then for you things haven't changed. You can chuck as much Weltschmerz at it as you like, but it's an abstract concept that will mean different things to different people. And if there is no money for public spending, then all you are left with is small... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one_ian_taylor Posted July 5 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5 41 minutes ago, blandy said: A lot of people think that, but if we look back at any 5 year period, there’s always loads of change. If you take a two term period, then the amount of change is always huge. Whether all that change is to someone’s liking or not is up to the individual, but in the last 5 years we’ve seen immigration soar, the small boats start and grow, the economy crashed, schools crumbling, the NHS break, Windfall taxes on energy companies, a footballer shame the government into providing school meals for kids, rising standards in literacy in schools, a revised focus on defence, the judicial system break, mass strikes on transport and in hospitals… and so on and so on. Stuff happens. And the big one, covid and its myriad impacts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 5 Moderator Share Posted July 5 24 minutes ago, one_ian_taylor said: And the big one, covid and its myriad impacts Sure. I left that one out deliberately because while you can praise or criticise the government response to it as you see fit, it was (as with the war in Ukraine) not their instigation, but you’re right. Home working is much more common now and that’s affected businesses and so businesses rates and rents need sorting, and energy needs sorting and the Brexit adverse impact on everything needs to change… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 5 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5 10 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Not really. If what you care about is wealth inequality and they change a load of stuff about wealth inequality then for those people things have changed. If what you care about is immigration and you change a load of stuff about immigration then for those people things have changed. If you don't care about immigration and they change a load of stuff regarding immigration then for you things haven't changed. You can chuck as much Weltschmerz at it as you like, but it's an abstract concept that will mean different things to different people. Creating an unloseable position for Labour. Change? Everything is change! Nonsense. It's **** obvious that the country needs fundamental shifts on a great many different fronts if we're to improve. The direction of travel must alter. If that does not happen, if the only difference is the faces talking and fundamentally the ideas and plans are essentially the same, we're ****. Saying there's no money isn't good enough. And if we're to be told that that is all we can expect, and we're getting change because the rosettes are red now, what is the **** point? There needs to be fundamental tax reform. There needs to be a massive housing boom, but that has to be done understanding that you can't just throw houses up you have to develop infrastructure around those houses, and it also has to be done knowing that that is economically complicated given the focus on ever increasing property prices. There needs to be massive NHS investment and realignment. There needs to be infrastructure spending everywhere. There needs to be massive restructuring of local government funding. And so on and so on and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one_ian_taylor Posted July 5 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5 5 minutes ago, blandy said: Sure. I left that one out deliberately because while you can praise or criticise the government response to it as you see fit, it was (as with the war in Ukraine) not their instigation, but you’re right. Home working is much more common now and that’s affected businesses and so businesses rates and rents need sorting, and energy needs sorting and the Brexit adverse impact on everything needs to change… I wondered whether that was why you had left that and Ukraine out, but I think the response is pretty critical - a lot of things outside of government control, but plenty was, and much of it botched. Then as you say, the lasting impacts are also pretty big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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