paul514 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 2 minutes ago, bickster said: This vote share thing is also doing my nut in, it’s not relevant the way parties game play FPTP. I’m sorry you find it upsetting that only 34% of people of the 60% who bothered to come out supported Labour 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 5 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5 It was kind of funny that Sunak left Downing Street under dark clouds with a smattering of drizzle in the air, yet the second Starmer got out of the car on arrival at Buckingham Palace the sun suddenly appeared and shone down. Seemed very appropriate. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 10 minutes ago, paul514 said: I’m sorry you find it upsetting that only 34% of people of the 60% who bothered to come out supported Labour Is this like when Liverpool supporters complained that they had the better goal difference and should have won the league? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 5 Moderator Share Posted July 5 12 minutes ago, paul514 said: I’m sorry you find it upsetting that only 34% of people of the 60% who bothered to come out supported Labour It’s not upsetting, it’s a false narrative. It’s not very important, it’s meaningless because of the way the system is gamed I also don’t give a shit about Labour, didn’t vote for them 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted July 5 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5 1 hour ago, Genie said: I was just thinking exactly the same thing. All the people congratulating him looked like normal humans too. to be fair we haven't been given reason to hate them yet as it's only been a few hours. which i guess is already an improvement on the tories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) 55 minutes ago, MCU said: Just having a read of Labour's manifesto. How would they enforce this? " Antisocial behaviour is not merely a ‘low-level’ nuisance. It hits the poorest communities hardest and, if left unchecked, leads to more serious offending. Yet, the Conservatives weakened enforcement powers. Labour will fix this by introducing new Respect Orders – powers to ban persistent adult offenders from town centres, which will stamp out issues such as public drinking and drug use. Fly-tippers and vandals will also be forced to clean up the mess they have created. " Source - https://labour.org.uk/change/take-back-our-streets/ I'm all for it by the way and hope it works out. What about the homeless drunks who hang out on the benches or sit up against the walls all day? We just going to move them across the road out of the town centre. Fly tippers should be punished hard if they don’t pick up their mess so agree with that. hopefully they do come down hard on knife crime as it’s ridiculous and damn right scary . Edited July 5 by Rugeley Villa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 3 minutes ago, Seat68 said: Is this like when Liverpool supporters complained that they had the better goal difference and should have won the league? No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 3 minutes ago, bickster said: It’s not upsetting, it’s a false narrative. It’s not very important, it’s meaningless because of the way the system is gamed I also don’t give a shit about Labour, didn’t vote for them It isn’t a false narrative if you don’t look at it from the perspective of support. The country doesn’t support them, they just stopped voting conservative. i knew they would win just as everyone else with more intelligence than your average goldfish did. i couldn’t care less they have been elected as they will do all the same stuff as the conservatives did so no change there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 2 minutes ago, bickster said: It’s not upsetting, it’s a false narrative. It’s not very important, it’s meaningless because of the way the system is gamed I also don’t give a shit about Labour, didn’t vote for them People broadly "on the left" have had to deal with the limitations of FPTP since at least 1983 with people "on the right" benefitting from that. The Lib Dems in particular have been screwed by it over and over again. So over the last fifteen years, people "on the left" have worked out how to target their vote to make it count in a system designed to stop it from counting. In 2024, there are probably no policies in either the Lib Dem or Labour manifesto that would look completely out of place in the other, and every bit of data suggests that enormous numbers of their voters are just as comfortable voting for whichever is most likely to return a non-Tory MP. So given the huge amount of work that both parties have put into targeting their vote in core areas, it feels a bit pulling-the-rug to now treat this very large group of voters as ideologically different from each other. I didn't vote Labour. Haven't done for two decades. I'm not part of that 35% that people are saying are the only voters that supported Labour yesterday. Am I thrilled that Starmer has a massive majority? You betcha. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 4 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: What about the homeless drunks who hang out on the benches or sit up against the walls all day? We just going to move them across the road out of the town centre. Fly tippers should be punished hard if they don’t pick up their mess so agree with that. hopefully they do come down hard on knife crime as it’s ridiculous and damn right scary . Need to build a lot of prisons for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 1 minute ago, ml1dch said: People broadly "on the left" have had to deal with the limitations of FPTP since at least 1983 with people "on the right" benefitting from that. The Lib Dems in particular have been screwed by it over and over again. So over the last fifteen years, people "on the left" have worked out how to target their vote to make it count in a system designed to stop it from counting. In 2024, there are probably no policies in either the Lib Dem or Labour manifesto that would look completely out of place in the other, and every bit of data suggests that enormous numbers of their voters are just as comfortable voting for whichever is most likely to return a non-Tory MP. So given the huge amount of work that both parties have put into targeting their vote in core areas, it feels a bit pulling-the-rug to now treat this very large group of voters as ideologically different from each other. I didn't vote Labour. Haven't done for two decades. I'm not part of that 35% that people are saying are the only voters that supported Labour yesterday. Am I thrilled that Starmer has a massive majority? You betcha. Just out of interest, what do you think they are going to do different to the Tory’s? Specifically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 I haven't posted in this thread since around this time yesterday as I had to be at the airport for 4am to go on holiday. I'm over the moon to see the back of the Tories. They have done so much harm over the last 14 years and have created the environment to allow scum like Reform to thrive. As much as it would be great to rejoice for days in the Tories demise my focus has already turned to Labour. I and many others have bleated that they can repair this country and they now have a huge responsibility in ensuring that in 5 years time less, not more, people are looking to the likes of Reform for answers. The way to do that is to improve public services and improve the lot of the many and and give those seeking it hope and opportunity. Big ask but an ask Starmer has been chomping at the bit to take on and deliver and I hope for all our sakes he does because, regardless of what colour tie you usually favour, the alternative is not a good outcome for any of us 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 11 minutes ago, tomav84 said: to be fair we haven't been given reason to hate them yet as it's only been a few hours. which i guess is already an improvement on the tories They look normal though. We have had a run of Johnson, Truss and Sunak who are all weirdo’s and barely human. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCU Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 8 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: What about the homeless drunks who hang out on the benches or sit up against the walls all day? We just going to move them across the road out of the town centre. Fly tippers should be punished hard if they don’t pick up their mess so agree with that. hopefully they do come down hard on knife crime as it’s ridiculous and damn right scary . Re the former, it would be nice if more support was offered to these people. Fly tippers are scum , but hard to trace unless there's cameras up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 3 minutes ago, paul514 said: Just out of interest, what do you think they are going to do different to the Tory’s? Specifically That's not really relevant to this discussion, and there are manifestos that you can read if you want to find out their stated policy differences. But even if there were no policy differences between them at all (and there quite obviously are), I'll still take the group of individuals that appear to be decent, well-meaning, thoughtful people over y'know...Tories. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 5 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5 10 minutes ago, paul514 said: i couldn’t care less they have been elected as they will do all the same stuff as the conservatives did so no change there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MCU Posted July 5 Popular Post Share Posted July 5 5 minutes ago, ml1dch said: That's not really relevant to this discussion, and there are manifestos that you can read if you want to find out their stated policy differences. But even if there were no policy differences between them at all (and there quite obviously are), I'll still take the group of individuals that appear to be decent, well-meaning, thoughtful people over y'know...Tories. Dunno what you're on about 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 5 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5 (edited) 15 minutes ago, paul514 said: Just out of interest, what do you think they are going to do different to the Tory’s? Specifically Run the economy. Have a thought out industrial policy that doesn't purely support their mates. Invest more in the NHS and Social Care. Interact in a positive way with Europe. Allow Green energy to flourish. Invest in Green energy and benefit from it's profits via Great British Energy. Bring shit infested water companies back under public ownership. Bring a lot more transport under public ownership. I've a suspicion they actually will build a bit more of HS2 up to Crewe but probably not the full route. Act like grown ups. Edited July 5 by sidcow 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCU Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 3 minutes ago, sidcow said: Run the economy. Have a thought out industrial policy that doesn't purely support their mates. Invest more in the NHS and Social Care. Interact in a positive way with Europe. Allow Green energy to flourish. Invest in Green energy and benefit from it's profits via Great British Energy. Bring shit infested water companies back under public ownership. Bring a lot more transport under public ownership. I've a suspicion they actually will build a bit more of HS2 up to Crewe but probably not the full route. Act like grown ups. This isn't happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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