Genie Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Correct. But you are voting for the party that the racists and fascists will vote for and is run by racists and fascists 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 1 minute ago, tonyh29 said: He's mentioned a few times about how he will negotiate a better deal .. I'm fairly sure the EU have mentioned a few times that you can't Cherry pick ..so it will be interesting to see what is on the table ,maybe he can be the one to final make Brexit work as the opportunity it should have been my personal feel is that with the majority he is likely to command he's in power for 2 or 3 terms and he will seek to re-join us during his second term , but I don't have any foundation for this view and a lot will depend on what happens with the Reform and the Conservative parties in the aftermath of tonight's massacre I genuinely think Reform will quickly die like UKip did once the dust has settled on this GE (unless they somehow spring a massive surprise with several seats). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 Just now, Stevo985 said: Mike just has better mates than you one of my friends is the green party candidate where I live so almost certainly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveburnside Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 Really is starting to feel like "Theyre all the same" which is why I will be wiping my arse on the ballot paper. The skidmark of democracy. Have fun counting that one!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 (edited) 7 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: my personal feel is that with the majority he is likely to command he's in power for 2 or 3 terms and he will seek to re-join us during his second term , but I don't have any foundation for this view and a lot will depend on what happens with the Reform and the Conservative parties in the aftermath of tonight's massacre And probably the Lib Dems as well. If the pressure on Labour is coming from that flank, it's going to make it harder to resist. If Ed Davey is asking every week "why not fix things by moving closer to Europe?", in the most Europhile House of Commons probably in history, the dial could easily move. Second term still won't happen though. Obviously lots can change (here and there), but it feels to me as though Starmer's successor is going to need is going to need to lean heavily into a very pro-EU membership and it's quite easy to see "under my leadership we'll start trying to rejoin" and that being one of the defining issues of the next contest, whenever that might be. Edited July 4 by ml1dch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 Just now, Dodgyknees said: I’d take that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 Just now, Genie said: I genuinely think Reform will quickly die like UKip did once the dust has settled on this GE (unless they somehow spring a massive surprise with several seats). I agree with you , I think a lot hinges on how many seats Reform get today , if its 1 or 2 then yeah I think they will disappear .. but I think it will also depend on who the next Tory leader is , if its a right wing nutter like Braverman then the need for a Reform party might go away , but if they go more moderate I think there could be more defections Interestingly I just looked online to see who is standing in my area and we have a UKIP candidate , i didn't even realise they were still around ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_avfc Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 1 hour ago, bickster said: Its Reform that will let Labour in in Solihull methinks (if it happens) What annoys me is the Lib Dem campaign in Solihull has seemingly revolved around a "Labour can't win in Solihull" message. This is in a constituency where the polls suggest a 2 way battle between the Conservatives and Labour. Given that the Lib Dem vote prediction is pretty miniscule compared to Labour and Conservatives I'm not sure what they're gaining from carrying this message. Please feel free to quote this when the Lib Dems win in Solihull West and Shirley later!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 6 minutes ago, tom_avfc said: What annoys me is the Lib Dem campaign in Solihull has seemingly revolved around a "Labour can't win in Solihull" message. This is in a constituency where the polls suggest a 2 way battle between the Conservatives and Labour. Given that the Lib Dem vote prediction is pretty miniscule compared to Labour and Conservatives I'm not sure what they're gaining from carrying this message. Please feel free to quote this when the Lib Dems win in Solihull West and Shirley later!! I think you're probably safe that nobody is going to be throwing that back at you later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobsons Choice Posted July 4 VT Supporter Share Posted July 4 Man this is crazy. I'd be amazed if the Russians weren't involved in this election. I am being bombed on every social media outlet continuously by reform. I mean it's mental. I just had one on tiktok that I couldn't close. It forced me to watch all of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 Just now, HKP90 said: Man this is crazy. I'd be amazed if the Russians weren't involved in this election. I am being bombed on every social media outlet continuously by reform. I mean it's mental. I just had one on tiktok that I couldn't close. It forced me to watch all of it. Something is up for sure, literally nobody mentioning Labour, Conservative, Green or LibDem but dozens for Reform on facebook. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rds1983 Posted July 4 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted July 4 2 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mjmooney Posted July 4 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted July 4 31 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: its not a criticism or anything , as I say I just find it weird (though we've touched on this before and I seem to recall your friend circle is more from academic world than the average person) Yes, it's a fair point. Personally, I find it slightly weird that people could have friends (as opposed to mere acquaintances) with diametrically opposed political views, but there you go. I'm a provincial child of the postwar settlement and the welfare state. My parents had nothing, I had every advantage, thanks to state-supported healthcare and education. I look at the Conservative Party, and what I see are class enemies, plain and simple. Nye Bevan's "lower than vermin" soundbite is close to my heart - I can feel little empathy with those who support their philosophies. So although it was never consciously by choice, most of my closest friends have come from a very particular demographic - namely, working-class kids who were the first in their families to go to university (mostly in the 1970s). We 'speak the same language', as it were. And I find myself more than somewhat uncomfortable around avowed right-wingers, particularly as I hate having to avoid political conversation, lest it should turn confrontational. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted July 4 VT Supporter Share Posted July 4 I'm not voting Reform, I don't like them and don't agree with their policies/viewpoints, but I think it is important that people are free to vote however they want and for who they want. This site (as in Off Topic) is fairly heavily skewed to fairly left/socialist ideals and can be very open in their challenges to viewpoints such as Reform. Challenge and debate is good. However, I think we need to be careful in how we do that so that we don't fall into some of the traps and issues we throw at things like Reform. That we don't become our own echo chamber, shouting down opposing viewpoints and making them not want to engage. This won't change viewpoints and foster healthy debate, this would only drive them further into areas (like Facebook) that get scorned by people on here. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 47 minutes ago, Daveburnside said: Really is starting to feel like "Theyre all the same" which is why I will be wiping my arse on the ballot paper. The skidmark of democracy. Have fun counting that one!! Pics or it didn't happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted July 4 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted July 4 5 minutes ago, Rds1983 said: I'm not voting Reform, I don't like them and don't agree with their policies/viewpoints, but I think it is important that people are free to vote however they want and for who they want. This site (as in Off Topic) is fairly heavily skewed to fairly left/socialist ideals and can be very open in their challenges to viewpoints such as Reform. Challenge and debate is good. However, I think we need to be careful in how we do that so that we don't fall into some of the traps and issues we throw at things like Reform. That we don't become our own echo chamber, shouting down opposing viewpoints and making them not want to engage. This won't change viewpoints and foster healthy debate, this would only drive them further into areas (like Facebook) that get scorned by people on here. Reform doesn’t count as an opposing viewpoint. Conservative, fine. That’s an opposing viewpoint. Reform are a bunch of lying, racist, right wing clowns. I will unashamedly shout down anyone who is stupid enough or duped enough to consider voting for them 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 51 minutes ago, Dodgyknees said: Was that in Prof. Curtice's wastepaper bin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 30 minutes ago, HKP90 said: Man this is crazy. I'd be amazed if the Russians weren't involved in this election. I am being bombed on every social media outlet continuously by reform. I mean it's mental. I just had one on tiktok that I couldn't close. It forced me to watch all of it. Quote From Russia With Likes: Nigel Farage Dominates Social Media During General Election – Boosted by Bots Stoking Racism The Reform Party is hovering around 18% of the vote, yet Farage’s and his party’s Facebook posts generated six times more reactions and shares than either Labour or the Conservatives and their leaders Byline Times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobsons Choice Posted July 4 VT Supporter Share Posted July 4 15 minutes ago, Rds1983 said: I'm not voting Reform, I don't like them and don't agree with their policies/viewpoints, but I think it is important that people are free to vote however they want and for who they want. This site (as in Off Topic) is fairly heavily skewed to fairly left/socialist ideals and can be very open in their challenges to viewpoints such as Reform. Challenge and debate is good. However, I think we need to be careful in how we do that so that we don't fall into some of the traps and issues we throw at things like Reform. That we don't become our own echo chamber, shouting down opposing viewpoints and making them not want to engage. This won't change viewpoints and foster healthy debate, this would only drive them further into areas (like Facebook) that get scorned by people on here. I get the point, and yes, people should very much be free to vote for who they feel are the best candidate, but I kinda feel like you are asking me to either lie and say that I respect Reform's agenda (which I'm not sure even they know), or shut up. Neither of which is really conducive to a forum of debate. Hyperbole aside, I will happily enter into a civil debate with a Reform voter, if they can do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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