ml1dch Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 (edited) 15 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: someone said to me that as we had a referendum on leaving , no party could take us back in without having another referendum .. but I've no idea if this is true ? Bit more complicated that that really. It would be politically very difficult to do it without, given that's what the precedent now is. And any Government that tried to do it without one is just opening up the question "why wouldn't you, if you're sure it's what the country actually wants?". And the accession process would expect the country in question (doubly so in our case) to clearly demonstrate that joining is what the electorate actually wanted. There's nothing in any rulebook that says it's necessary. But it's very difficult to see how it happens without one. Edited July 4 by ml1dch 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 25 minutes ago, Seat68 said: We should be very careful wishing for the death of the conservative party. They are ruled by tradition and committee. They have one nation tories as well as the far right nutters. If they go the nutters who represent and vote for Reform will be empowered. They are ruled by spite, hatred and xenophobia, I would take the tories over those words removed. The one nation lot have either left the party, died, or have swallowed whatever principles they had left and are happy to wallow in the crapulence that is the current conservative party. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 4 VT Supporter Share Posted July 4 49 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: They haven't got 18%. In fact nobody has got anything yet and we won't fully know until tomorrow. Whoa, OK. I'm just going with what the report said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted July 4 VT Supporter Share Posted July 4 27 minutes ago, Seat68 said: We should be very careful wishing for the death of the conservative party. They are ruled by tradition and committee. They have one nation tories as well as the far right nutters. If they go the nutters who represent and vote for Reform will be empowered. They are ruled by spite, hatred and xenophobia, I would take the tories over those words removed. What the Tories will always have over and above Reform is the Tory base, the party machine and the infrastructure. So long as they get enough seats they will come back in 1 form or another. However, I am very much in 2 minds about whether this is a good thing or. I agree with what you say in the moderate wing of the party is infinitely sensible in comparison to Reform or the far right of the party. The difficulty I have is the "moderate Tories" were purged of those willing to take a stand in 2019 and those that have stayed have allowed the last 5 years to occur without so much as a whimper of dissent. It will depend who remains in parliament tomorrow, but it is likely the more extreme MPs are in the safest seats. Even if that wasn't the case, the membership now seems to very distinctly far right and therefore that is likely the path that they will continue to tread. If they do not change but still have a significant base to work from, then this will have a far more adverse impact on British politics than whatever phoenix party that Farage is running. The way to deal with Farage/populism is actually sorting out the real reasons why people are unhappy (the answer is not immigration) and actually improving people's standard of living. That is what populism strives on and provides quick fix solutions to all of life's woes. They are the very essence Snake Oil Salesmen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozzavfc Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 I look forward to watching the Lib Dem, Reform, Green coalition pushing for voter reform next parliament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 Some of Reform's moneyed backing is from those looking to reduce the state, to get their mits on national assets and to continue swerving tax of course. The xenophobia angle is about gaining support from thick words removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 4 VT Supporter Share Posted July 4 Well the deed is done. First time in my life I've voted labour. Now they have to deliver. If they don't it's hard to see me voting Conservative in the future. If they don't improve matters in 4 years I'm going to have to have a long hard think were I go next. However I'm confident things will be a lot better 4 years from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobsons Choice Posted July 4 VT Supporter Share Posted July 4 10 minutes ago, sidcow said: Well the deed is done. First time in my life I've voted labour. Now they have to deliver. If they don't it's hard to see me voting Conservative in the future. If they don't improve matters in 4 years I'm going to have to have a long hard think were I go next. However I'm confident things will be a lot better 4 years from now. Pretty much where I'm at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Mozzavfc said: I look forward to watching the Lib Dem, Reform, Green coalition pushing for voter reform next parliament They can keep pushing but as their grand total will be less than 100 even with the most optimistic forecasts, any changes will be unlikely. If any constitutional heavy lifting takes place it will be on finally reforming the house of lords as at present in theory it has a in built conservative majority. Edited July 4 by The Fun Factory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post tonyh29 Posted July 4 Popular Post Share Posted July 4 amused me far more than it should have ... 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted July 4 VT Supporter Share Posted July 4 I voted earlier today, about 9:30ish (Labour, to hopefully remove the long standing Tory Mark Pritchard). Not a great deal to report, I think the leaflet through the door count was 2 Labour, 1 each for Tory, LD, Green and Reform. Haven’t seen many banners around here. No knocks at the door, but I haven’t had a canvasser at the door for about 20 years. Back then it was a Tory in South Staffordshire who when I said I wasn’t sure if I was voting, told me everyone should made to vote before promptly cutting across the grass of my front garden when he left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Wainy316 Posted July 4 Popular Post Share Posted July 4 Leaflets through the door count: Labour - 2 Conservative - 2 Liberal Democrat - 367,452 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 1 hour ago, The Fun Factory said: Was that in Prof. Curtice's wastepaper bin? It was actually the back of Southgates tactics list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 8 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: amused me far more than it should have ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 59 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: someone said to me that as we had a referendum on leaving , no party could take us back in without having another referendum .. but I've no idea if this is true ? I think the slightly less toxic way of doing it would be a party, say Labour for example, make it a pledge going into the next GE and if they got power then use that as the public mandate to rejoin. Another stand-alone referendum on rejoining would be horrible. Merge it in with the general noise of a GE and it will be (slightly) more bearable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 (edited) 20 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: amused me far more than it should have ... Slumming it with the crisps selection from nanny's shop' to Waitrose. Surely it should be Tyrrells , Walkers must be far too wokery given who flogs them. Edited July 4 by The Fun Factory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted July 4 VT Supporter Share Posted July 4 The most natural anyone has ever held a crisp before. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted July 4 VT Supporter Share Posted July 4 Given my usual insomnia pattern, I'll probably go to bed at about 11.00pm and wake up as usual at about 3.00am, which should be peak viewing time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MCU Posted July 4 Popular Post Share Posted July 4 Voted Reform. Was a fairly easy decision actually. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted July 4 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted July 4 1 hour ago, Dante_Lockhart said: Banning of ULEZ's, HS2, shunning the WHO, scrapping TV licences, deporting child groomers with dual citizenship, corporation tax thresholds, student loan interest scrapped, more police with more power etc.. - all items that would drive interest amongst the population. People need to stop banging on about the 'racist party' tbh. No doubt they have people of that ilk within the ranks, but i can guarantee you have those in all parties, they're just not as vocal. All of the racists will vote Reform. That should tell you enough. Most of the other stuff they said they'll deliver they wouldn't. It's either practically or financially impossible. It's doing exactly what it's designed to do, be "too good to be true" policies that will convince people to vote for them but they'll never have to deliver on because they'll never get into power Please don't fall for their bollocks. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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