General Election Pre-Thread (6 of 6)

[Davkaus]

2 minutes ago, richp999 said:

The latest figure for the previous year’s legal migration into the UK is 1.2 million. How do you think they did this without any safe or legal methods ?

You know you can't just jump on a plane into the UK without a visa, right?

[richp999]

4 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

You know you can't just jump on a plane into the UK without a visa, right?

Yeah I do, I fly them.

There are also many countries from which you can fly into the UK without any type of visa.  Just a passport will do.

Edited Monday at 16:50 by richp999

[MessiWillSignForVilla]

[blandy]

17 minutes ago, richp999 said:

The latest figure for the previous year’s legal migration into the UK is 1.2 million. How do you think they did this without any safe or legal methods ?

The point is that if you’re from Hong Kong or Ukraine or many other countries you can apply for permission from those countries. If you’re from Iran or Syria or Yemen, for example you cannot. Then there’s the issue of persecution. So for example if you’re a Uighur Muslim in China and being persecuted, as millions are, China will (like Iran or Syria etc.) lock you up and persecute you for trying to legally get permission. If you’re a nurse or doctor from America, it’s easy to get permission. Asylum seekers other than from Hong Kong and Ukraine have no means of legally entering the UK. People enter illegally because they have no alternative in most cases. When you get cases where they are not genuinely at risk, but are instead economic migrants, or crims, then the UK needs to stop them at source by working with e.g. Albania (and has done). Like we used to do with France over all the ones coming by Truck. Since the Tories did Brexit and stuff, relations with France have been way worse and there’s little or no incentive for France to help us. Labour needs to mend those relationships.

[Davkaus]

I suppose that the one potential legal route would be entering on a visitor visa, but getting one of those presumably isn't trivial for someone from a country from which people are likely to claim asylum

[ml1dch]

11 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

I suppose that the one potential legal route would be entering on a visitor visa, but getting one of those presumably isn't trivial for someone from a country from which people are likely to claim asylum

There was a massive / interesting (delete depending on your politics) kerfuffle last week about Starmer and Jonathan Ashworth referring to Bangladeshis as being a nationality that should be "sent back", which got a lot of the left into a state of anger about how Labour were about to deport the whole Bangladeshi community. 

It seems that a rather disproportionate number of Bangladeshis (relative to other nationalities) are coming in on visitor visas, then just as they are about to expire, then claim asylum (around 95% of which are then rejected).

No big point to make on it, but feels like a relevant "current" story which links nicely. 

Edited Monday at 17:57 by ml1dch

[RadioTom]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

Labour needs to mend those relationships.

This is going to be far more difficult if there’s a far right bunch of Neo-Nazis in power on the other side of the channel… 

[Davkaus]

10 minutes ago, RadioTom said:

This is going to be far more difficult if there’s a far right bunch of Neo-Nazis in power on the other side of the channel… 

He'd never say it, but I suspect if National Rally take control and crack down on asylum seekers crossing their borders, Starmer might be thanking his lucky stars that the boat crossings plummet without him having to do a damn thing.

Of course we want to fulfil our international commitments. Of course we do. What a curious phenomenon that more people in need can't reach us.

[sidcow]

32 minutes ago, RadioTom said:

This is going to be far more difficult if there’s a far right bunch of Neo-Nazis in power on the other side of the channel… 

Yes, I was wondering how this will work. 

Then again you might find them being chucked out of France at the border as soon as they arrive. They may not get as far as the Channel. France might become a no go area for migrants.  The idea of shooting them as target practice might become actual official policy rather than the opinion of a mental case representative of a fringe party. 

[Davkaus]

It'd be lovely if we didn't just normalise and accept blatant corruption by pretending that declaring the bribes makes it any better.

https://www.ft.com/content/0c99a9b0-59c6-49be-9faf-194bd981b62c

Quote

Sir Keir Starmer accepted £76,000 worth of entertainment, clothes and similar freebies from UK donors since the 2019 general election, more than almost any other MP, according to research by the Financial Times.

The Labour leader took “gifts, benefits and hospitality” spanning concerts, parties, sport games, hotel stays and clothing during the last parliament, including more than 20 free tickets to see football matches.

Starmer, who is on course to become prime minister after the general election on Thursday, has vowed to “return politics to public service” after what he has characterised as years of Conservative sleaze.

MPs have to declare gifts, benefits and hospitality from UK sources to the House of Commons register of interests. The benefits section of the register groups together gifts, such as tickets, with other categories of expense. It excludes international travel.

Asked generally about his use of freebies on Monday, Starmer said the transparency of the register meant that “everybody . . . can see who donated, what it was for, and how much it is, so you can ensure there’s no conflict of interest, as I would ensure there’s no conflict of interest.”

Boris Johnson declared more than £200,000 in gifts, £117,000 of which was accommodation for him and his family after he was ejected from Downing Street.
Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, who has been criticised by Labour for his frequent use of private and RAF aircraft, accepted more than £140,000 in donations to cover the cost of eight flights. These were not considered personal gifts and are registered in a separate category for “support linked to an MP” as they were for trips made on Conservative party business. The MP who came closest to Starmer in terms of entertainment benefits was Laurence Robertson, a Tory MP who received more than £40,000 in days out from the racing and betting industries since 2019. The Betting and Gaming Council, for which Robertson has also worked, threw him a £2,300 reception to mark his birthday.

[Rugeley Villa]

And Keir Starmer said last week that politicians need to stop being in politics purely for themselves and to gain financial reward from it. For the people . 

[Seat68]

Would ban every single politician from accepting any form of freebie. Regardless of party. No bad as each other bollocks. Ban them all. Not going to happen as all of their noses are in the trough so it is a minor distraction intended to smear someone. 

[Davkaus]

3 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

Would ban every single politician from accepting any form of freebie. Regardless of party. No bad as each other bollocks. Ban them all. Not going to happen as all of their noses are in the trough so it is a minor distraction intended to smear someone. 

I did deliberately pull out the tory examples buried deep in the article out into my quote for some "balance"  

But yeah, it should just be banned. There's no good answer to "so what did you think these wealthy people/businesses wanted in exchange for these generous gifts?".

Even if the politicians intend to act completely properly at all times, the perceived conflict of interest is a big enough problem on its own. 

[Davkaus]

I was just watching the latest Jonathon Pie rant, and even though it's "comedy" (of a sort), I usually fact check anything that jumps out. I was incredulous at this one, but it does explain why things are such a bloody state.

Do you know how many Ministers of State for Housing we've had since the tories came in in 2010? 16. SIXTEEN.

The job title and scope of the portfolio has changed 8 times over that period, including a comedy period from 2016-2020 when it went from Minister of state for Housing and Planning to Minister of State for Housing, back to Minister of state for Housing and Planning, and then, wait for it, back to Minister of state for Housing.

Is it any bloody wonder there seems to be no coherent housing policy when the average tenure is less than a year.

[Genie]

13 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

I did deliberately pull out

[delboy54]

10 hours ago, Davkaus said:

What a curious phenomenon that more people in need can't reach us.

And just what is it that they need from us that they cannot get from all the other "safe European countries that they have crossed through?

[Seat68]

7 minutes ago, delboy54 said:

And just what is it that they need from us that they cannot get from all the other "safe European countries that they have crossed through?

Lets say you are put in the position that you have to get out of your country with the clothes you stand up in. Get out or risk persecution or death. You have to get out now. Where do you go? You can go as far as you can get. Do you choose a country where no relatives, no support group exists, no one from your community, you speak zero of the language or do you go to a country where you speak a smattering of of the language. Where your community is, friends, relatives and a country that traditionally gives safety to those persecuted. I know which one I would choose. Hopefully I never have to make that choice. 

[Rugeley Villa]

10 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

Let’s say you are put in the position that you have to get out of your country with the clothes you stand up in. Get out or risk persecution or death. You have to get out now. Where do you go? You can go as far as you can get. Do you choose a country where no relatives, no support group exists, no one from your community, you speak zero of the language or do you go to a country where you speak a smattering of of the language. Where your community is, friends, relatives and a country that traditionally gives safety to those persecuted. I know which one I would choose. Hopefully I never have to make that choice .

You are already here mate 

[rjw63]

1 hour ago, Seat68 said:

Lets say you are put in the position that you have to get out of your country with the clothes you stand up in. Get out or risk persecution or death. You have to get out now. Where do you go? You can go as far as you can get. Do you choose a country where no relatives, no support group exists, no one from your community, you speak zero of the language or do you go to a country where you speak a smattering of of the language. Where your community is, friends, relatives and a country that traditionally gives safety to those persecuted. I know which one I would choose. Hopefully I never have to make that choice. 

They don’t like slap heads in Nashville

[Jareth]

2 days to go. The tories should be in a bunker passing the cyanide pills around.