General Election Pre-Thread (5 of 6)

[foreveryoung]

2 minutes ago, bickster said:

Satire is funny

VT, full of education 

[bickster]

3 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

VT, full of education 

See, if it is satire, you were taking the piss out of yourself

[StefanAVFC]

 

[blandy]

19 hours ago, bickster said:

It'll also take longer than 13 years to recover from the position they'll be left in

 

Nah, they'll be back in charge in 8-10 years.

I completely get that they're a broken shambles of crooks, idiots and chancers and deserve to be routed, but the thing is, there is a big chunk of Britain's and particularly England's population that likes a centre right kind of political stance. So all it needs is for the loonies that are currently in the Tory party to be cast into the void (either by voters or by what's left of the Tory party) and a new version will regenerate itself. One not obsessed with Forins and Brexit. They they'll get back in, because Labour won't have fixed the mess they're about to inherit. They might have fixed some of it, but there will be other stuff that happens that'll make them be the ones to be cast out - whether that's worsening climate change, terrorism, war, water, weather, whatever...

[Chindie]

No, the Tory party will definitely be deader than T-rex after this election, honest. 

[bickster]

5 minutes ago, blandy said:

Nah, they'll be back in charge in 8-10 years.

I completely get that they're a broken shambles of crooks, idiots and chancers and deserve to be routed, but the thing is, there is a big chunk of Britain's and particularly England's population that likes a centre right kind of political stance. So all it needs is for the loonies that are currently in the Tory party to be cast into the void (either by voters or by what's left of the Tory party) and a new version will regenerate itself. One not obsessed with Forins and Brexit. They they'll get back in, because Labour won't have fixed the mess they're about to inherit. They might have fixed some of it, but there will be other stuff that happens that'll make them be the ones to be cast out - whether that's worsening climate change, terrorism, war, water, weather, whatever...

Not a chance in my opinion. I'm not even convinced the Tory Party will exist in the form we know it in 2 election cycles time. If it does exist it will be a minority party, the brand is utterly toxic

I'm even more convinced now that in the next election the LibDems will become the opposition, it may even happen this time (but unlikely)

Not only are the Tory Party facing the demographic timebomb (the pivot point between Tory and Labour is currently approaching 70 years old) but reversing the B word is going to become a bigger and bigger topic.

That isn't saying Reform won't replace them but I also really don't see the two entities merging any time soon. (see other posts I've made recently on that issue)

I just don't see it even with the press being favourable to them

[Chindie]

In the real world they'll take a humiliation (that won't be as humiliating as anyone wants), spend a decade in the doldrums, until a nation that loves Tories so much that Labour only get in when they turn into them, gets tired of a fat and slovenly Labour party taking the piss too much, getting into a scandal too far, and the world turns into even darker seas, and they'll turn to change in the shape of blue oak trees and minor number twiddling and different wrapping paper being the saviours. Same as it ever was.

[mjmooney]

3 hours ago, bickster said:

The Friarage is a building. Farage is a word removed. 

FTFY 

[Guest]

I might ruin my vote to be honest, mainly because I'm leaning more towards reform against my better judgement. Ugh.

[Wainy316]

9 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

I might ruin my vote to be honest, mainly because I'm leaning more towards reform against my better judgement. Ugh.

What's making you lean that way?

[The Fun Factory]

22 hours ago, Marka Ragnos said:

I wonder if anyone from the Guardian/Indy soft left have begun writing about how in an irony of ironies, now that the damage of Brexit seems harder to reverse, and the talk these days is all about a new "well-behaved" far right-wing EU (I don't mean merely LePen, Meloni, Orban -- but the a far right entire EU), Brexit may have left Britain in a safer spot, but for reasons no one perhaps could have ever predicted. In other words, how we got here is despicable and stupid, but would we really want to go back to this Europe now anyway? Just something I was thinking about this morning. Not at all saying Brexit was good, but more that, it's strange how things have turned out.

No. Because even the right wing nutters like Orban  and Meloni realise it is a massive economic own goal, and is easier to stay in and bitch about it.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

What's making you lean that way?

Well the conservatives can do one, labour are just as bad. A lot of the reform stuff I can agree with, but it's the extreme stuff that puts me off. Green is a wasted vote, as it lib dem tbh.

[cyrusr]

15 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

Well the conservatives can do one, labour are just as bad. A lot of the reform stuff I can agree with, but it's the extreme stuff that puts me off. Green is a wasted vote, as it lib dem tbh.

I mean, I am no fan of Reform (save for PR) but you genuinely should vote for who you wish to but appreciate the apathy if you feel neither Labour/Tories do not represent you. 

What from Reform do you agree with but not think that it is a wasted vote like Greens/Lib Dem? 

Have you considered https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/ in which you can select which policy in each area you like the most and see where you sit. Might be good to at least stick the cross against the party that you feel represent you the best. 

[markavfc40]

23 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

A lot of the reform stuff I can agree with, but it's the extreme stuff that puts me off. 

Aside from scrapping the NHS and going with an insurance based health system, leaving the ECHR, slashing spending on already decimated public services and climate change denial, which I assume all come under extreme, what is attracting you to Reform that means you can overlook those extremes and lean towards voting for them?

Edited June 24 by markavfc40

[Stevo985]

 

49 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

I might ruin my vote to be honest, mainly because I'm leaning more towards reform against my better judgement. Ugh.

The only policies that Reform have that "sound" good are the ones that are absolutely impossible for them to deliver.

Don't be fooled, they're full of absolute shit and led by a couple of racist, moneygrabbing words removed. They don't really want power and if they got it they wouldn't know what to do with it

[Davkaus]

6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

 

The only policies that Reform have that "sound" good are the ones that are absolutely impossible for them to deliver.

 

There are a few that I think are reasonable on the face of it that are far from impossible - 20k income tax threshold, writing off student fees (over time if they remain in NHS employment) for doctors and nurses to aid recruitment/retention, and increased employer NI contributions for all non-essential overseas hires are all fairly interesting ideas

Then there's PR and reform of the House of Lords.

If you pick and choose rather than taking the manifesto as a whole, there's some decent stuff in there, shame about all the culture war bollocks, and, you know, everything about who and what Nigel Farage is.

Edited June 24 by Davkaus

[DCJonah]

10 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

There are a few that I think are reasonable on the face of it that are far from impossible - 20k income tax threshold, writing off student fees (over time if they remain in NHS employment) for doctors and nurses to aid recruitment/retention, and increased employer NI contributions for all non-essential overseas hires are all fairly interesting ideas

Then there's PR and reform of the House of Lords.

If you pick and choose rather than taking the manifesto as a whole, there's some decent stuff in there, shame about all the culture war bollocks, and, you know, everything about who and what Nigel Farage is.

That's the thing though. Even if you liked a couple of their ideas how could you possibly think that word removed Farage is the man to lead the country. 

Don't forget he didn't want to run initially because he wanted to go and help convicted felon and rapist Donald Trump. 

Edited June 24 by DCJonah

[Chindie]

The problem with Reform having 'some' 'sensible policies' is rather like the old gag about Mussolini and the trains. You theoretically get 'some' 'sensible policies' if you support them, but sadly all the rest also comes with it. 'Some' 'good' but at a heinous price.

[Stevo985]

16 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

There are a few that I think are reasonable on the face of it that are far from impossible - 20k income tax threshold, writing off student fees (over time if they remain in NHS employment) for doctors and nurses to aid recruitment/retention, and increased employer NI contributions for all non-essential overseas hires are all fairly interesting ideas

I mean this is exactly my point. Because these are impossible to pay for. And their only explanation of how they would do it is "eliminating government waste". Which even if it was true, wouldn't raise anywhere near the amount required.

Hence the ones that sound good are impossible to deliver.

 

And the reason it's so poorly thought out is they do not give a single shit about those policies. Not one shit. 

They are saying them because they know people will go "What a bloody good idea! I'll vote for them" and they'll never have to actually deliver them. Which they couldn't do anyway. because they're impossible.

Edited June 24 by Stevo985

[Genie]

2 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

 

On the flip side, a few people made a lot of money.