General Election Pre-Thread (5 of 6)

[Marka Ragnos]

I wonder if anyone from the Guardian/Indy soft left have begun writing about how in an irony of ironies, now that the damage of Brexit seems harder to reverse, and the talk these days is all about a new "well-behaved" far right-wing EU (I don't mean merely LePen, Meloni, Orban -- but the a far right entire EU), Brexit may have left Britain in a safer spot, but for reasons no one perhaps could have ever predicted. In other words, how we got here is despicable and stupid, but would we really want to go back to this Europe now anyway? Just something I was thinking about this morning. Not at all saying Brexit was good, but more that, it's strange how things have turned out.

Edited June 23 by Marka Ragnos

[Davkaus]

4 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

In other words, how we got here is despicable and stupid, but would we really want to go back to this Europe now anyway?

I'd rather be in there with a veto than be a semi-isolationist country on the periphery that is still at the mercy of their decisions. 

We had a position of vast power within the EU that we will never replicate while we're out of it. 

[chrisp65]

4 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

I wonder if anyone from the Guardian/Indy soft left have begun writing about how in an irony of ironies, now that the damage of Brexit seems harder to reverse, and the talk these days is all about a new "well-behaved" far right-wing EU (I don't mean merely LePen, Meloni, Orban -- but the a far right entire EU), Brexit may have left Britain in a safer spot, but for reasons no one perhaps could have ever predicted. In other words, how we got here is despicable and stupid, but would we really want to go back to this Europe now anyway? Just something I was thinking about this morning. Not at all saying Brexit was good, but more that, it's strange how things have turned out.

Inside the EU we would be at the table, with a vote on what direction it takes and an ability to co-ordinate investment, security, migration policies.

Not being in the room whilst those things are discussed between our nearest neighbours and largest trading block is never going to be a good thing.

 

[sharkyvilla]

11 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

I wonder if anyone from the Guardian/Indy soft left have begun writing about how in an irony of ironies, now that the damage of Brexit seems harder to reverse, and the talk these days is all about a new "well-behaved" far right-wing EU (I don't mean merely LePen, Meloni, Orban -- but the a far right entire EU), Brexit may have left Britain in a safer spot, but for reasons no one perhaps could have ever predicted. In other words, how we got here is despicable and stupid, but would we really want to go back to this Europe now anyway? Just something I was thinking about this morning. Not at all saying Brexit was good, but more that, it's strange how things have turned out.

I was thinking something similar the other day, we are a few years ahead of the rest of Europe as our country's dabble with right-wing populism has burnt itself out thanks to the disaster of Brexit, just as theirs is starting to take over.

[LondonLax]

3 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

I was thinking something similar the other day, we are a few years ahead of the rest of Europe as our country's dabble with right-wing populism has burnt itself out thanks to the disaster of Brexit, just as theirs is starting to take over.

Not seen the latest polling numbers for Reform UK then?

[sharkyvilla]

1 minute ago, LondonLax said:

Not seen the latest polling numbers for Reform UK then?

Yeah but there's always 20% of the country that are utter dickheads, they just aren't voting Tory as much this time.  Last election it was whole swathes of Labour strongholds falling for it and Johnson in particular.

[chrisp65]

Less than 2 weeks to go, and Sunak is campaigning in his own constituency.

Here he is, meeting the people, well, the Labour candidate.

[LondonLax]

2 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

Yeah but there's always 20% of the country that are utter dickheads, they just aren't voting Tory as much this time.  Last election it was whole swathes of Labour strongholds falling for it and Johnson in particular.

I predict the Tories will take a tour to the dark side after the election. They will conclude the reason they did not win was because they were not far enough to the right and lost too many votes to Farage. Not only that, the moderate Tories will probably be thin on the ground after the election so the party will be directed by the likes of Braverman and Badenoch.

This is just what happened in Australia two years ago. The worrying thing is, the current very conservative right wing opposition leader (Dutton) who was dismissed as a right wing nutter whilst a conservative party cabinet minister, has gotten more mainstream appeal as the actual leader of the opposition. Imagine Braveman becoming Tory opposition leader after a Tory wipe out this election and then in a few years time people are genuinely talking about her as the next UK Prime Minister at the 2029 election. 

[limpid]

12 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Less than 2 weeks to go, and Sunak is campaigning in his own constituency.

Here he is, meeting the people, well, the Labour candidate.

"What's the rosette for? Reminds me of my time going to St. Mary's when it was still a gas works."

[wishywashy]

This Tory MP standing for re-election in in Richmond and Northallerton is yet another one trying their hardest to disassociate themselves with the absolute mess that is the Tories

Edited June 23 by wishywashy

[bickster]

30 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

I predict the Tories will take a tour to the dark side after the election. They will conclude the reason they did not win was because they were not far enough to the right and lost too many votes to Farage. Not only that, the moderate Tories will probably be thin on the ground after the election so the party will be directed by the likes of Braverman and Badenoch.

This is just what happened in Australia two years ago. The worrying thing is, the current very conservative right wing opposition leader (Dutton) who was dismissed as a right wing nutter whilst a conservative party cabinet minister, has gotten more mainstream appeal as the actual leader of the opposition. Imagine Braveman becoming Tory opposition leader after a Tory wipe out this election and then in a few years time people are genuinely talking about her as the next UK Prime Minister at the 2029 election. 

I think the direction of travel really does depend on who is left standing.

I also think they really need to start deciding who the leader will be in 2049

It really is an existential crisis they face.

There will be no easy merge with Farage, Farage won’t take them over, of the people likely to be left standing there's talk of Pritti Patel becoming the “unity” candidate. Yeah that’s Patel who has been photographed partying with Farage at Tory conference.

They either split or one half leaves but if they split, it won’t be until there’s a death match for the branding (a la Labour recently)

If they split, it could be the softer types joining the LibDems or it could be the nutters joining Reform but again that all depends on the numbers

It'll also take longer than 13 years to recover from the position they'll be left in

It also makes me wonder why Farage would want to join the Tories apart from the branding he’d be gaining nothing and stands to lose a lot

 

 

[Davkaus]

36 minutes ago, bickster said:

 

It also makes me wonder why Farage would want to join the Tories apart from the branding he’d be gaining nothing and stands to lose a lot

 

 

He's stand to gain what's left of the institutional knowledge of CCHQ, which while diminished, is still leagues ahead of the incompetent BNP graduates and tory rejects that make up Reform, as well as the comfort blanket of the relative respectability of the conservative party compared to what Reform currently has.

Farage leading the tories is incredibly dangerous, IMO, and I genuinely fear that the 2029 GE could see Keir Starmer being the last bastion of defence against British Fascism. I'm enjoying the tory implosion but hope they can restore themselves to a sense of centre-right respectability because the alternative terrifies me.

Edited June 23 by Davkaus

[bickster]

18 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

He's stand to gain what's left of the institutional knowledge of CCHQ, which while diminished, is still leagues ahead of the incompetent BNP graduates and tory rejects that make up Reform, as well as the comfort blanket of the relative respectability of the conservative party compared to what Reform currently has.

Farage leading the tories is incredibly dangerous, IMO, and I genuinely fear that the 2029 GE could see Keir Starmer being the last bastion of defence against British Fascism. I'm enjoying the tory implosion but hope they can restore themselves to a sense of centre-right respectability because the alternative terrifies me.

Yes but there is also a downside to it and it’s big for him, he potentially loses control. He’d be leaving behind the total control that he has and taking on the mantle of a semi-democratic entity that very much could get rid of him. He can’t just buy the Tory Party and be the major shareholder with total power in full control. There’d be conferences and pesky members to overcome, there’d be troublesome Lords, party grandees and prominent activists.

We're already seeing that the likes of Cleverly and others are determined to not allow Farage in.

He also risks pissing off people currently on his own side. There are huge questions as to whether he can shift all his current support to supporting the Tories. Many will question it, many will suggest that he doesn’t need to do it (we’ve come this far without them, they can join us etc)

I'm not sure all that combined with what he gains makes for a good strategic move for him.

And that CCHQ machine… doesn’t look that good right now and after a heavy defeat will struggle to get the interns etc that it relies on.

[Mandy Lifeboats]

Just under 2 weeks to go ----

I have posted my postal vote.  

I have been allocated to work the same polling station that I worked in the May elections.  It's a tennis club with a kitchen, internet access, toilets and showers.  That will make the long day much easier. 

I did the boring e-learning for the election.  Nothing much has changed. 

We held an on-line Q&A for inexperienced poll staff.  There were only a few attenders and nothing new arose.  All of our "newbies" are working with an experienced team.  I know 3 of our 6 person team.  We have worked together a few times. I think we only have 1 newbie.  

Next week I shall meet the officials of the Tennis Club and sketch how I want the room set up. I'll agree opening up and closing down arrangements.  I shall also ask for the key to the bar and suggest a free tab for election staff.   They will refuse but it's always worth a try.  

The area we use for polling lacks disabled access.  I shall measure up for a wheelchair ramp to be delivered and installed on 3rd July.  The team that does that will also deliver 2 sets of voting booths and a few privacy screens. 

I have decided not to work the overnight count.  It's incredibly interesting but I want to get back home, have a nap and then watch the results come in. 

I encourage everyone to vote on 4 July.  People have died to ensure we have democracy.   There's no better alternative and a high turnout shows how much it means to us.  

 

Edited June 23 by Mandy Lifeboats
Spelling mishsteaks

[chrisp65]

[foreveryoung]

16 hours ago, wishywashy said:

This Tory MP standing for re-election in in Richmond and Northallerton is yet another one trying their hardest to disassociate themselves with the absolute mess that is the Tories

Why would he safeguard 'Farages future."  

[bickster]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

Why would he safeguard 'Farages future."  

The Friarage is a building. Farage is a politician.

[MCU]

‘ I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO VOTE ‘ . Except if you’re voting Tory you’re a word removed. Reform? No you’re racist. I always find it curious how it’s so much more socially acceptable to vote for parties that aren’t right sided. 

[foreveryoung]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

The Friarage is a building. Farage is a politician.

It was satire 

[bickster]

Just now, foreveryoung said:

It was satire 

Satire is funny