Czarnikjak Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 6 minutes ago, thunderball said: Dont get me started on PSR/FFP, it is an absolutely innaproriate method of governance, however I think the rule changes in 2025 will remove this issue and create a better commercial environment for us. The upside is Dobbin has a spark of capability so he could emerge as a decent player, I think most likely to again sell on, but I think the deal should wash its face. I think £9m for Tim is good business for us too which possibly wouldn't have happened without this reciprocal trade. I dont see this as anything ither than a swap that helps PSR and makes us no worse off player wise. I wouldn't be surprised if Dobbin is loaned out to Championship initially and then sold if he does well (or kept if he does amazingly). BTW, the rule changes in 2025 will not create better environment for us. They will restrict us even more if anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 5 minutes ago, matt_1874 said: Looks a decent prospect, direct & likes to take on a defender. Terrible music tho! The beginning clips don't go anywhere, cutting immediately before the end product/decision. This is against League One opposition. He's purely a PSR buy, Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 18 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Tbf no chelsea play did look good in that game He turned his back blocking the shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 38 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Ah okay, I've misunderstood that. In that case @LondonLax is right, and these deals are indeed set to be a ball and chain that lasts for years. If we're frantically trying to get what are not very good deals done in a limited time-frame, that should certainly be seen as definitive proof that all the posters who spent the last few months going 'we don't have a problem with PSR, we're tight but under the limit' are just categorically wrong (which tbh was obvious before). There is also UEFA’s cost controls to consider. A max of 70% of our revenue can be spent on wages and transfers. All our amortisation fees will be hanging over us before each accounting season has even begun. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 27 minutes ago, Czarnikjak said: I wouldn't be surprised if Dobbin is loaned out to Championship initially and then sold if he does well (or kept if he does amazingly). BTW, the rule changes in 2025 will not create better environment for us. They will restrict us even more if anything. Rule changes: I think you are right if we dont dramatically improve the revenue gap or consistently challenge for Champions League Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_1874 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 29 minutes ago, lexicon said: The beginning clips don't go anywhere, cutting immediately before the end product/decision. This is against League One opposition. He's purely a PSR buy, Matt. I agree re the opposition but he was positive & on the front foot (I'm aware that YouTube / X clips are selective in what they show). That might possibly be the case & he could turn out to be another Finn Azaz but he's 21 & played 12 times for Everton in the league last season so we'll just have two wait & see how he progresses training with better players & an elite coach in Unai. Plus in an ideal fantasy world we'd be signing Nico Williams but PSR is here & we have to deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) 1 hour ago, lexicon said: If he plays more than 100 minutes, I will be very surprised. He's a year younger than Morgan Rogers and has played more games (sure there'll be a lot of subs in there) in the prem than Rogers already. He was starting for Everton early on in the season. I saw somewhere that we're using PSR to our advantage to go for players we actually want. I think people might be underestimating the fact that we're working things to our advantage and not just throwing £9million here and there for no reason. I'm sure Everton wanted Irogbunam too. Edited June 21 by Rolta 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 9 minutes ago, matt_1874 said: I agree re the opposition but he was positive & on the front foot (I'm aware that YouTube / X clips are selective in what they show). That might possibly be the case & he could turn out to be another Finn Azaz but he's 21 & played 12 times for Everton in the league last season so we'll just have two wait & see how he progresses training with better players & an elite coach in Unai. Plus in an ideal fantasy world we'd be signing Nico Williams but PSR is here & we have to deal with it. If he becomes as good as Finn Azaz, then that'd be fine, really. He's still got a way to go by the looks of it. It's not an either/or between him and Williams, I think you're looking at this deal the wrong way - this is more like a Lino Sousa signing. We're doing Everton a solid to inflate the Tim price a bit and hoping that we can recoup some money down the line if he impresses in the Championship. It's a different Villa, Matt - these players aren't signed to play for us, rather than to make us a little bit of money down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 1 minute ago, Rolta said: He's a year younger than Morgan Rogers and has played more games (sure there'll be a lot of subs in there) in the prem than Rogers already. He was starting for Everton early on in the season. I saw somewhere that we're using PSR to our advantage to go for players we actually want. I think people might be underestimating the fact that we're working things to our advantage and not just throwing £9million here and there for no reason. I'm sure Everton wanted Irogbunam too. To provide the proper context: Dobbin has played 257 minutes of Premier League football, Rogers has played 641. He has started for them once, to Rogers' 8 times. This is not a signing for even the bench, Rolta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 37 minutes ago, Zatman said: He turned his back blocking the shot Its not his fault that goal went in. Theere is zero closing down from anyone Give the guy a break Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJay Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 If a player has the raw tools that can't be taught, that's a great start. Unai will improve the tactical side, decision making and overall general skills of a player as he has proven with nearly every player in the team. Maatsen for example is technically miles ahead of most left backs, there are valid question marks on his defensive game but I'd back emery and team to improve that side of his game. Technique and footballing ability are crucial to how we want to play, we need players who are very comfortable with the ball at their feet. No idea if Dobbin is any good but if they feel he has the technical ability, they will back themselves to coach him to a higher level, otherwise it's just an investment that helps us with psr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 My guess would be on loan at Plymouth within the next 6 weeks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_1874 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 10 minutes ago, lexicon said: If he becomes as good as Finn Azaz, then that'd be fine, really. He's still got a way to go by the looks of it. It's not an either/or between him and Williams, I think you're looking at this deal the wrong way - this is more like a Lino Sousa signing. We're doing Everton a solid to inflate the Tim price a bit and hoping that we can recoup some money down the line if he impresses in the Championship. It's a different Villa, Matt - these players aren't signed to play for us, rather than to make us a little bit of money down the line. I agree with your points and understand the reasoning behind this deal. I was simply sharing my opinion that he appeared to be a promising prospect in the clip. He could potentially be a good long-term investment for PSR, or if he demonstrates his ability, he might become a valuable player for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 1 minute ago, matt_1874 said: I agree with your points and understand the reasoning behind this deal. I was simply sharing my opinion that he appeared to be a promising prospect in the clip. He could potentially be a good long-term investment for PSR, or if he demonstrates his ability, he might become a valuable player for us. I'd be very, very surprised if he ever became a valuable player. I think the plan is for him to have a decent year on loan in the championship, then sell him on for a bit of a profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 35 minutes ago, lexicon said: To provide the proper context: Dobbin has played 257 minutes of Premier League football, Rogers has played 641. He has started for them once, to Rogers' 8 times. This is not a signing for even the bench, Rolta. Let's take it a step deeper and get to the point I was trying to make. Dobbins is a year younger than Rogers, so at an equivalent age Dobbins has 257 minutes of Prep football and Rogers had 0. At an equivalent age to Dobbin now, Rogers went to Boro, where he was, for the start of the season at least, mainly playing as a sub. We bought Rogers in Jan to plenty of doubting talk about him getting no game time and he rapidly became one of our most important players and looked like an amazing signing. My point is that Dobbin has time to make an impact to a similar level at a similar age. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 There are two questions here, which seem to me to probably have different answers. The first is: is Lewis Dobbin a player with some potential, who if everything falls into place could go on to shine in the future in the way Morgan Rogers has started to do? The answer to that is presumably yes - not that it *will* happen, but that it *could*. The second question is: would a club that finished 4th in the league be buying Lewis Dobbin at this stage, if it weren't mutually beneficial for meeting financial rules that both clubs would otherwise fail to meet? And the answer to that seems much more likely to be no. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 Be interesting to see what the PL makes of their "fair value" rule. Because no way are Iroegbunam or this kid worth £10m right now. But value is really just what someone is willing to pay so its very difficult for the PL to enforce this rule. So I guess as long as you dont really take the P (and I'd argue these deals are borderline) then this is a bit of a loop hole that the clubs have identified. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 17 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: There are two questions here, which seem to me to probably have different answers. The first is: is Lewis Dobbin a player with some potential, who if everything falls into place could go on to shine in the future in the way Morgan Rogers has started to do? The answer to that is presumably yes - not that it *will* happen, but that it *could*. The second question is: would a club that finished 4th in the league be buying Lewis Dobbin at this stage, if it weren't mutually beneficial for meeting financial rules that both clubs would otherwise fail to meet? And the answer to that seems much more likely to be no. The second question is a bit presumptuous imo. But regardless, it doesn't rule out the fact that we can be legitimately interested in him. After all, we're faced with losing players we don't want to lose, so it can be the same for Everton. And they didn't get in the Champions League either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david-avfc Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 16 minutes ago, villaglint said: Be interesting to see what the PL makes of their "fair value" rule. Because no way are Iroegbunam or this kid worth £10m right now. But value is really just what someone is willing to pay so its very difficult for the PL to enforce this rule. So I guess as long as you dont really take the P (and I'd argue these deals are borderline) then this is a bit of a loop hole that the clubs have identified. £9m is a good price but it’s not crazy, lots of youngsters go for more than that, we sold Chukweumeka for £20m and he played less minutes for us than Tim has 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 1 hour ago, Rolta said: Let's take it a step deeper and get to the point I was trying to make. Dobbins is a year younger than Rogers, so at an equivalent age Dobbins has 257 minutes of Prep football and Rogers had 0. At an equivalent age to Dobbin now, Rogers went to Boro, where he was, for the start of the season at least, mainly playing as a sub. We bought Rogers in Jan to plenty of doubting talk about him getting no game time and he rapidly became one of our most important players and looked like an amazing signing. My point is that Dobbin has time to make an impact to a similar level at a similar age. He could - but there's not much to really say that he will. 27 minutes ago, david-avfc said: £9m is a good price but it’s not crazy, lots of youngsters go for more than that, we sold Chukweumeka for £20m and he played less minutes for us than Tim has Nah. Carney played 433, Tim 385. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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