BleedClaretAndBlue Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 Shame, I really wanted to see what this kid had at Villa. Looked promising pre-season. Hopefully he’s ready for the PL this time next season 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAZZAM Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 Seems odd to let him leave if the plan is still to get rid of Donk. Even if Kamara returns in a few months theres a fair whack of football until then. Surely we should loan him out in jan when we know Bouba is defo back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 5 minutes ago, The_Steve said: Two scenarios: Dougie told Unai he wants to join Juve, after joining he mentioned how Brazilian lads there convinced him. We contact Juve to arrange a sale concious that we also need a sale so we strike an agreement. That no other clubs came in for Dougie means that we struck an agreement that probably was enough to satisfy PSR whilst bringing in young names we had interest in thereafter. As good as he was, he clearly wasn’t happy and just stopped listening to Unai as much. Players come and go, that’s football. I think some fans put Dougie on an unrealistic pedestal which is there choice, just not something I agree with despite how important he was to our success. But for me, the more critical names to our success are Dibu, Ollie, Ezri and Pau. We will never know the true reasons, but I think he was leaving regardless of PSR. I agree with parts of that, but I have a slightly different take on it. BMH is where it all happens, and by and large every player knows the pecking order in the camp.....Much talk between coaches happens and bits of eavesdropping is inevitable....and body language players a part too. I think Unai has a far more ruthless streak than folk give him credit for marshmellow on the outside, tungsten on the inside....He will be relentless in his pursuit of betterment....no sentiment, don't be fooled by the nice man persona. He maybe to us, but to work for, he is demanding. Dougie imo had an inkling, that Unai was looking for more power, and athleticism in the middle, and on a few occasions in games, Unai was seen having stern words with Dougie. I think Dougie knew, he was not in the " fort Knox" position some fans thought he was....so he put his feelers out. Only when he found a club and a big club, that wanted him, did he further the narrative, HE wanted to go. Unai felt more than comfortable with that, and along with PSR made what could have been a sensitive situation acceptable to all. I am not suggesting PSR, wasn't an issue, but I am suggesting it wasn't the only issue. FWIW that's my take on it, based on nothing more than intuition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 17 minutes ago, CVByrne said: Philogene didn't add anything to the squad the year he was at Hull. What happened in that year? Oh wait he played regular football and improved because of it. He wasnt a Villa player Comparison makes no sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 25 minutes ago, allani said: It's all about now and only now. Instant gratification or nothing. I thought Enzo would get plenty of game time but as others have said I reckon that (a) completing the Onana deal and (b) Kamara potentially being a lot closer to a return than was initially expected probably means that a loan is a good option for him and us. Kamara back in a month or so is honestly huge and somewhat lost in the current discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 5 minutes ago, TRO said: I agree with parts of that, but I have a slightly different take on it. BMH is where it all happens, and by and large every player knows the pecking order in the camp.....Much talk between coaches happens and bits of eavesdropping is inevitable....and body language players a part too. I think Unai has a far more ruthless streak than folk give him credit for marshmellow on the outside, tungsten on the inside....He will be relentless in his pursuit of betterment....no sentiment, don't be fooled by the nice man persona. He maybe to us, but to work for, he is demanding. Dougie imo had an inkling, that Unai was looking for more power, and athleticism in the middle, and on a few occasions in games, Unai was seen having stern words with Dougie. I think Dougie knew, he was not in the " fort Knox" position some fans thought he was....so he put his feelers out. Only when he found a club and a big club, that wanted him, did he further the narrative, HE wanted to go. Unai felt more than comfortable with that, and along with PSR made what could have been a sensitive situation acceptable to all. I am not suggesting PSR, wasn't an issue, but I am suggesting it wasn't the only issue. FWIW that's my take on it, based on nothing more than intuition. I always appreciate your posts TRO. I do think Unai does have a more ruthless streak and Dougie was absolutely not pulling his weight at times (yes fatigue was a problem but we also had very few options). I think there's a multitude of factors for sure. PSR being one of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 (edited) 31 minutes ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: Shame, I really wanted to see what this kid had at Villa. Looked promising pre-season. Hopefully he’s ready for the PL this time next season Me too, I like him. But when you look deep in to that Arsenal performance, and the relentless, physical and mental approach, they muster, with the scrapping and fighting for every ball.....it shows what level we need to compete at. As much as the trickery that Rogers mustered, and all the eye candy....The physicality, athleticism and drive, was awesome. Morgan showed all of us, what is required to compete at this level....It was some statement, and the football world, sat up and noticed. All these young boys, will have to look at that and say, that's what I have to work at.....Saka has added it to his game too. Unai, will know, who is ready, and who isn't....We have gone up a level, and it's not just about trickery and Rabona's, it's about a relentless pursuit of a result. There will be along this journey, surprises, players who we think will make it, won't. Enzo and SIJ will go out and learn how to be effective in this arduous league....it isn't easy. Edited August 28 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 44 minutes ago, TRO said: Did we sell him on the cheap or did we ( fans) over value him? just being devils advocate. Both are true. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 5 minutes ago, The_Steve said: I always appreciate your posts TRO. I do think Unai does have a more ruthless streak and Dougie was absolutely not pulling his weight at times (yes fatigue was a problem but we also had very few options). I think there's a multitude of factors for sure. PSR being one of them. The feeling is mutual. Steve...I am not saying, I'm right....just my pennyworth of thought possibility. I think unai played in to the narrative, that Dougie wanted to go. Unai, tickles me, he comes across as such a pussy cat.......Oh Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 (edited) 31 minutes ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: Shame, I really wanted to see what this kid had at Villa. Looked promising pre-season. Hopefully he’s ready for the PL this time next season Pre-season friendlies are not the same as the real thing though. I trust Emery knows that hes not ready though. I just question that if a 23 year old isn't ready to be a first team squad player then he might never be good enough. Different for the other lad we signed who we loaned out. Edited August 28 by PaulC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaParkAvenue Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 5 minutes ago, The_Steve said: I always appreciate your posts TRO. I do think Unai does have a more ruthless streak and Dougie was absolutely not pulling his weight at times (yes fatigue was a problem but we also had very few options). I think there's a multitude of factors for sure. PSR being one of them. Why does Barrenechea leaving on loan affect opinions on Dougie anyway? The club wanted collateral to make the Dougie deal worthwhile. Now, the two players involved have been found not good enough for us, at least not right now. They still hold economic value and that’s the point. People cheering about Villa suddenly having awesome squad depth have been wrong though, Our improved squad depth is because of players returning from injury, not from summer signings, Those extra signings are almost all gone now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 26 minutes ago, KAZZAM said: Seems odd to let him leave if the plan is still to get rid of Donk. Even if Kamara returns in a few months theres a fair whack of football until then. Surely we should loan him out in jan when we know Bouba is defo back. My limited understanding is Lutsharel can play CB, RB and defensive midfield, that might be one of the factors of Enzo, going out on loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 (edited) 6 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said: Why does Barrenechea leaving on loan affect opinions on Dougie anyway? The club wanted collateral to make the Dougie deal worthwhile. Now, the two players involved have been found not good enough for us, at least not right now. They still hold economic value and that’s the point. People cheering about Villa suddenly having awesome squad depth have been wrong though, Our improved squad depth is because of players returning from injury, not from summer signings, Those extra signings are almost all gone now. Yes three loaned out plus Archer sold and we've sold two first team players and not replaced Diaby yet. Maybe it will look different in a couple of days. Edited August 28 by PaulC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 5 minutes ago, PaulC said: Pre-season friendlies are not the same as the real thing though. I trust Emery knows that hes not ready though. I just question that if a 23 year old isn't ready to be a first team squad player then he might never be good enough. Different for the other lad we signed who we loaned out. He doesn't have to be good enough for us to make it worthwhile. Forget this mindset. Good loan and we sell him for profit next summer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 Pretty disappointing that him and Illing aren't even on the team this season. What a joke the whole thing is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaParkAvenue Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 (edited) 13 minutes ago, PaulC said: Both are true. I’m sure the club got best possible value at the time for Dougie. We did sell him cheaply, obviously, but the Monchi works in mysterious ways and I won’t complain. There was certainly planning involved. Most would say Dougie was a €70m player and he was sold for €25m plus two kids we don’t need (they’re still worth maybe €30-35m euro combined so no disaster). Edited August 28 by VillaParkAvenue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 1 minute ago, Czarnikjak said: He doesn't have to be good enough for us to make it worthwhile. Forget this mindset. Good loan and we sell him for profit next summer. Yes that's true. I will have to get used to this buying and selling for profitability stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishywashy Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 Quote Valencia and Aston Villa have already reached an agreement in principle for Enzo Barrenechea... but an internal issue has arisen at Aston Villa and the English club has asked VCF for a few hours to reconsider Enzo's departure. Screams that Dendoncker might be off... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 Keep this guy over Le Donk anyday 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 3 minutes ago, wishywashy said: Screams that Dendoncker might be off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts