General Election Pre-Thread (3 of 6)

[Jareth]

2 hours ago, ml1dch said:

Yes, I didn't think you were.

The last few Prime Ministers who you could describe as "good leaders" are probably Thatcher, Blair, and arguably Johnson. I'm guessing you weren't thinking of them either. 

If I were being cynical, I assume what you're defining as a good leader is  "someone who can get elected believing the things that I believe".

I'd rate a leader who believed the things they said they believed. So not Starmer or Sunak. They are the choice at this election - and if not them then who in Labour or the Tories is any better? Also, certainly wouldn't argue BoJo to be a good leader but each to their own. 

Edited June 6 by Jareth

[bickster]

32 minutes ago, Jareth said:

I'd rate a leader who believed the things they said they believed. So not Starmer or Sunak. They are the choice at this election - and if not them then who in Labour or the Tories is any better? Also, certainly wouldn't argue BoJo to be a good leader but each to their own. 

Ah The Witch then

[DCJonah]

8 hours ago, Chindie said:

For a counter point on the 'tut tut, Labour clearly aren't the Tories' comments.

It's hard to tell. Labour have spent this extended coronation essentially running around telling us how they agree with the Tories on the fundamental points, but think they're doing it badly. They've happily opened their arms to multiple Tories. They have happily told us they're not spending any more money on the NHS, and the only cast iron solution to how they achieve these wonderful efficiencies in the service is to look longingly at private services, just like every government for the last 20 years. And let us not forget that, despite looking wistfully at Blair and Browns tenure, this very site had people decry then as a red Tories at the end. Now the same ideas are coming back and we're supposed to be delighted. 

What if what the country needs is a new path? Labour aren't offering one. They're offering the same path as the Tories, with slightly different shoes and wayfarers not aviators.

At this point, lack of corruption and incompetence would be a move in the right direction. 

Labour are not surging to the right like this current Tory party are. They're not intent on just continuing culture wars. 

I also wish their policies were more left wing but they're still a completely different party to the words removed we have in there right now. 

Edited June 6 by DCJonah

[Nicho]

1 hour ago, Jareth said:

I'd rate a leader who believed the things they said they believed. So not Starmer or Sunak. They are the choice at this election - and if not them then who in Labour or the Tories is any better? Also, certainly wouldn't argue BoJo to be a good leader but each to their own. 

Why don’t you think starmer believes what he’s saying? 

[ml1dch]

57 minutes ago, Jareth said:

I'd rate a leader who believed the things they said they believed. So not Starmer or Sunak. They are the choice at this election - and if not them then who in Labour or the Tories is any better? Also, certainly wouldn't argue BoJo to be a good leader but each to their own. 

Well, chrisp65 has laid out that he's pretty sure that Streeting believes the things he says he believes. I think he does too, which is why I used him in my initial example. 

Which is why I raised it initially, I don't think you're bemoaning the lack of "convincing leaders", I think you're bemoaning the lack of credible politicians from your chosen political outlook.

[bickster]

Anyway back to this election and Tory tax lies…

 

[Jareth]

39 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Well, chrisp65 has laid out that he's pretty sure that Streeting believes the things he says he believes. I think he does too, which is why I used him in my initial example. 

Which is why I raised it initially, I don't think you're bemoaning the lack of "convincing leaders", I think you're bemoaning the lack of credible politicians from your chosen political outlook.

There's a choice of PM at the election between Starmer or Sunak - neither appeal. Potential Labour policies will appeal though, so I'll be voting on that basis first, and of course to stop the tories. I don't think there are any convincing leaders in any political party as it stands, and that includes Streeting. If he gets the Labour gig one day, I'll give him a hearing. 

[Jareth]

52 minutes ago, Nicho said:

Why don’t you think starmer believes what he’s saying? 

Well I voted for him when he went for the Labour leadership - and then he's sort of done the opposite. And well, he's a lawyer, and very skilled in wording a disclaimer. 

[markavfc40]

25 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Well I voted for him when he went for the Labour leadership - and then he's sort of done the opposite. And well, he's a lawyer, and very skilled in wording a disclaimer. 

I'd imagine he has realised what you can say you want to do to become Labour leader won't get you elected to govern.

Even though for the masses policies that would take us much further to the left would be of benefit, not enough of the electorate is ready to vote for that. My hope is that it will be baby steps and Labour can get into power and make improvements to the NHS/public services, see a gradual improvement in living standards for the masses, especially those with the least, and in addition things like renationalise the rail service and deliver on the promise to set up publicly owned GB energy etc. You do things like that during your first term and make it work then you can bring enough of the electorate with you to ensure another term where you can then build on it.

As I and others have also mentioned previously bringing some respect and order back into politics is also something I'm convinced Labour will do and is something this country needs after the disgraceful behaviour of those who govern us over the last handful of years. 

Edited June 6 by markavfc40

[markavfc40]

It is starting to look like self sabotage from Sunak.

 

[chrisp65]

13 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

It is starting to look like self sabotage from Sunak.

 

Leaders lining up for group photos with Biden. Charles changing his cancer treatment schedule to be there, Starmer photographed in conversation with Zelensky.

Sunak excusing himself from events early, to do an ITV interview to say he’s not a liar. ITV stressing tonight that the timing of the interview, was Sunak’s choice.

He just lost the remembrance demographic.

Why not just resign and leave? Why do it this way?

[bickster]

I really didn’t expect the Tory party to die this quickly. 
The trouble is, right now their voters that get upset by this will likely jump to reform

You just have to hope they see through that and vote LibDem.

Sunak has killed them completely. It’s too late to change leader now and nominations close today 

I expect defections to Reform

Cameron who stood in for him will have realised the consequences of Sunak’s actions.

Its got to be the worst GE campaign in modern history

[Davkaus]

Wait, he did **** what.

To go on TV and lie about lying? Which won't air for another week, so it'll not only revive the lying story, but also remind everyone that he popped home early from d day? **** hell.

I expected him to campaign dismally, he's completely out of his element interacting with normal people, but I'm absolutely astonished at how useless this man is.

Edited June 7 by Davkaus

[Nicho]

7 hours ago, Jareth said:

Well I voted for him when he went for the Labour leadership - and then he's sort of done the opposite. And well, he's a lawyer, and very skilled in wording a disclaimer. 

Fair enough point. For me times change and I like the honesty of that. The country is **** so have to cut cloth accordingly. 

i actually think policy wise labour can’t do much different to the conservatives in the short to medium but the whole Tory party is in the pits, ran out of steam, pockets too lined and a new government is needed. 

And I like the way Starmer conducts himself and can be ruthless when he needs to be.

[one_ian_taylor]

42 minutes ago, bickster said:

I really didn’t expect the Tory party to die this quickly. 
The trouble is, right now their voters that get upset by this will likely jump to reform

You just have to hope they see through that and vote LibDem.

Sunak has killed them completely. It’s too late to change leader now and nominations close today 

I expect defections to Reform

Cameron who stood in for him will have realised the consequences of Sunak’s actions.

Its got to be the worst GE campaign in modern history

And there's  still time for it to get worse. Something even worse is bound to happen in the next couple of weeks, I don't  think we've hit the peak. 

[bickster]

20 minutes ago, one_ian_taylor said:

And there's  still time for it to get worse. Something even worse is bound to happen in the next couple of weeks, I don't  think we've hit the peak. 

Nadir not peak  

But yes, I agree. It’s downhill from here 

[ml1dch]

1 hour ago, Davkaus said:

Wait, he did **** what.

To go on TV and lie about lying? Which won't air for another week, so it'll not only revive the lying story, but also remind everyone that he popped home early from d day? **** hell.

To be be fair, he had to come back and do his important policy work on the banning of Remembrance Day poppies to really seal the deal.

[one_ian_taylor]

42 minutes ago, bickster said:

Nadir not peak  

But yes, I agree. It’s downhill from here 

Oh, it's  a peak for me!

[tinker]

His arrogance is abhorrent, he has to go.

[Stevo985]

10 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

I'd imagine he has realised what you can say you want to do to become Labour leader won't get you elected to govern.

Even though for the masses policies that would take us much further to the left would be of benefit, not enough of the electorate is ready to vote for that. My hope is that it will be baby steps and Labour can get into power and make improvements to the NHS/public services, see a gradual improvement in living standards for the masses, especially those with the least, and in addition things like renationalise the rail service and deliver on the promise to set up publicly owned GB energy etc. You do things like that during your first term and make it work then you can bring enough of the electorate with you to ensure another term where you can then build on it.

As I and others have also mentioned previously bringing some respect and order back into politics is also something I'm convinced Labour will do and is something this country needs after the disgraceful behaviour of those who govern us over the last handful of years. 

Basically my thoughts (or maybe hopes)

Starmer is staying very central, and non-comittal, because he knows it will get them elected. Then when they're in power they'll make changes that will take us more to the left.

 

It might be fantasy, but I'm clinging to it