General Election Pre-Thread (3 of 6)

[desensitized43]

35 minutes ago, Jareth said:

There's talk of an extra Tory manifesto from those right wingers, if they think the public don't like Sunak's. Of interest, which manifesto is therefore the tory one? Or are both? If both, and the additional one is similar to Reform's, then that does look like a path to Farage....

Oh great. Extra arsewipe.

[Wainy316]

29 minutes ago, desensitized43 said:

Oh great. Extra arsewipe.

What about if you read the manifestos on your phone?  Doesn't sound practical.

[wishywashy]

 

[Jareth]

Who forms the oppostion if the Libs and the tories get the same number of seats? Is it goals scored?

[DaoDeMings]

1 minute ago, Jareth said:

Who forms the oppostion if the Libs and the tories get the same number of seats? Is it goals scored?

They do a grubby little deal

[CarryOnVilla]

the one thing I’m loving about this election, is this potential of someone else being the main opposition party. 

 

[bickster]

 

[chrisp65]

2 minutes ago, bickster said:

 

 

 

36 minutes earlier

[bickster]

18 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

36 minutes earlier

It is another Titanic moment though. I know lets think of some words that people associate with motor racing. Car Crash must be pretty high up the list. It really is being run by 12 year olds

[Davkaus]

53 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Who forms the oppostion if the Libs and the tories get the same number of seats? Is it goals scored?

Saw this questioned last week - there's no real answer, it's never happened before, and it'd be in the hands of the Speaker, which can only lead to an absolute clusterf*ck.

[Davkaus]

Labour will keep Civil Service at the bloated level of waste and inefficiency it currently is, says man whose party has been running the country for 14 years.

Nobody is buying this nonsense you bunch of clearings in the woods.

Edited June 11 by Davkaus

[DaoDeMings]

2 minutes ago, bickster said:

It is another Titanic moment though. I know lets think of some words that people associate with motor racing. Car Crash must be pretty high up the list. It really is being run by 12 year olds

Next they'll be using a Titanic analogy to illustrate the unsinkable nature of their manifesto

[bickster]

7 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Saw this questioned last week - there's no real answer, it's never happened before, and it'd be in the hands of the Speaker, which can only lead to an absolute clusterf*ck.

Is it? That's insane. Technically there isn't a speaker before parliament sits, they have to be elected or re-elected after every general election.

I have my doubts that this answer would be correct. I do very much think its an unknown, I just can't see how that works

EDIT: I should clarify, I think the answer is correct but I can't see how someone that doesn't exist and would need to be elected by the house can decide who the leader of the opposition is. It's the practicalities of the matter I'm on about

[Davkaus]

8 minutes ago, bickster said:

Is it? That's insane. Technically there isn't a speaker before parliament sits, they have to be elected or re-elected after every general election.

I have my doubts that this answer would be correct. I do very much think its an unknown, I just can't see how that works

EDIT: I should clarify, I think the answer is correct but I can't see how someone that doesn't exist and would need to be elected by the house can decide who the leader of the opposition is. It's the practicalities of the matter I'm on about

There doesn't need to be an opposition to elect the speaker though?

I presume it's simply been considered so unlikely that it wasn't worth spending much time debating, but to the best of my knowledge this is the most recent legislation to cover it

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1975/27

Quote

If any doubt arises as to which is or was at any material time the party in opposition to Her Majesty’s Government having the greatest numerical strength in the House of Commons, or as to who is or was at any material time the leader in that House of such a party, the question shall be decided for the purposes of this Act by the Speaker of the House of Commons, and his decision, certified in writing under his hand, shall be final and conclusive.

 

[chrisp65]

It’s Westminster remember.

If its a ‘hung’ opposition, there will be some ancient ceremony where a man in garters does a dance around the king and says some Latin and the king bestows the lucky twig of York won in battle in 1423 and that means Lord DeAth of Blackpool gets to decide based on what he thinks might be right.

A week later, some academic will point out he got it wrong, but it’s too late now so let’s push on with this new precedent.

Only proving if proof were needed why our democracy is the best in the world.  

[bickster]

9 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

There doesn't need to be an opposition to elect the speaker though?

I presume it's simply been considered so unlikely that it wasn't worth spending much time debating, but to the best of my knowledge this is the most recent legislation to cover it

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1975/27

 

Yep I get all of that but think about it. As much as there is a convention that if the last speaker stands they are re-elected, it could be that they aren't (as a number of Tories have threatened in recent years)

If no opposition is in place before the speaker is elected and this situation arises you have a clusterf... sorry constitutional crisis because it could then be down to the speaker getting elected on that basis of which party the prospective speaker will choose but it doesn't stop there... even a coalition will have been sorted by this stage so... there will always be one party or parties that command a majority, the Government. the government would then be free to vote for the speaker that they think will choose the opposition that they want.

Hence me thinking it is insane 

[Davkaus]

3 minutes ago, bickster said:

Yep I get all of that but think about it. As much as there is a convention that if the last speaker stands they are re-elected, it could be that they aren't (as a number of Tories have threatened in recent years)

If no opposition is in place before the speaker is elected and this situation arises you have a clusterf... sorry constitutional crisis because it could then be down to the speaker getting elected on that basis of which party the prospective speaker will choose but it doesn't stop there... even a coalition will have been sorted by this stage so... there will always be one party or parties that command a majority, the Government. the government would then be free to vote for the speaker that they think will choose the opposition that they want.

Hence me thinking it is insane 

The other thing that could happen is that, with no encouragement from the PM's office of course, a member defects to the party that is more closely aligned to the government

 

[bickster]

4 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

The other thing that could happen is that, with no encouragement from the PM's office of course, a member defects to the party that is more closely aligned to the government

 

Very true but they'd have to stay there for 5 years or until circumstances changed at a by-election

Its a very risky strategy for the member involved and indeed the party that accepts the member into their ranks

[ml1dch]

3 minutes ago, bickster said:

Very true but they'd have to stay there for 5 years or until circumstances changed at a by-election

Its a very risky strategy for the member involved and indeed the party that accepts the member into their ranks

Or (in the example of this imminent Parliament) I reckon you'd get Reform creating a coalition with the Tories, or the Green(s) chucking their lot in with the Lib Dems. Given being the opposition gives you more money and more speaking time, you'd think that there are enough tangible benefits for a smaller party to help form the opposition, that would outweigh ideological differences. 

[bickster]

Just now, ml1dch said:

Or (in the example of this imminent Parliament) I reckon you'd get Reform creating a coalition with the Tories, or the Green(s) chucking their lot in with the Lib Dems. Given being the opposition gives you more money and more speaking time, you'd think that there are enough tangible benefits for a smaller party to help form the opposition, that would outweigh ideological differences. 

Coalition opposition is an interesting concept