Fans Advisory Board meeting 22nd May - Official club responses

[Deano & Dalian's Umbrella]

1 hour ago, Risso said:

"Snitching", good one.

The club have said they've followed the rules and the FA are happy with them. If that's the case then fair enough. If it's not, then they've tried to circumvent the rules on heritage assets, and that's not on. If you're happy with that, well that's your choice.

Although I completely support the principle of doing this, I worry about the potential PSR ramifications of having hundreds of thousands of Adidas shirts with the wrong badge on them If the FA were to agree with your reasoning.

[OutByEaster?]

 

Quote

 

3. Avoidance of consultation on heritage assets

The Club is of the opinion that there has been no breach of the FA Rules as they relate to Heritage Assets.  There has certainly been no suggestion from the FA that there has been a breach.

Our consultation process, whilst different from the previous process was no less robust.  We sent the survey to more than 85,000 fans – season ticket holders, members, waiting list members and the FAB – and we received more response than were received the first time around.  We also consulted with a wider stakeholder group including staff, commercial partners and the ownership group before embarking on a redesign exercise based upon the output from that consultation process.

 

I think on this one it was clear that the club has been in dialogue with the FA and is confident that they aren't in breach of the regulations. The survey at the start of the season and the internal meetings around that have satisfied the FA's requirements as they currently stand.

Personally, I don't dislike the badge, it's recognisably Villa and if it's left alone for long enough, I think it'll be appreciated more. 

The process is worrying though, again it's a form of communication and it tells us a little bit about where we stand. Now, it's more than possible that involving the likes of me in your major corporate commercial design project isn't particularly helpful, I get that - anyone who has seen me will know I have questionable taste at the best of times - but do one thing or the other and own what you're doing.

If the club had said "We, the club, have strong ideas about this and how it can work for us commercially and represent us in all sorts of different media so we're going to take charge here" and then produced s badge that isn't so outlandish as to worry the spirit of the FA's rules or massively contradict the most recent survey, a badge like the one we've got for example, then I think we could live with that, I'd be comfortable enough. The piece in the marketing magazine that tells us how much we were all involved and the line about "handing it over to fans to decide" undermine that though and make us feel a lot less comfortable. Perhaps it's the unusual role of the heritage regulations and the desire to appear more open that leads to the problem, but we know how we got this badge, we all do, be honest about that and own it.

The outcome, the badge we've got, isn't something that I think warrants too much of a gnashing of teeth, some will like it, some won't, but it's recognisably Villa and something that going forward will become part of the fabric of the club, will become something we love and are protective of - the lessons of the process remain though and there are things that all sides can learn.

[Lichfield Dean]

7 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

 

Will the Warehouse project be open for the start of the 2024/25 season?

No.  The work to convert the Academy building is extensive and the new facilities will not be available until part way through the 2025/2026 season.  We are looking to provide a space that will allow multi-use as a ticketed venue space with capacity of circa 3,000 people.

 

Oh

[CarryOnVilla]

15 minutes ago, Deano & Dalian's Umbrella said:

Although I completely support the principle of doing this, I worry about the potential PSR ramifications of having hundreds of thousands of Adidas shirts with the wrong badge on them If the FA were to agree with your reasoning.

Also another round of rebranding. 

[OutByEaster?]

7 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

4. Villa Park

Please could provide clarity on the timeline of works on Villa Park and expected capacity for the start of next season.

Works have already started and will be largely complete by the start of the 24/25 season. 

The list of seating works as follows:

Holte Lower – rail seating above vomitories and seating / gangway re-alignment.

Holte Upper – rail seating above vomitories.

North Upper – seating / gangway re-alignment.

Doug Ellis Lower (away fans) – rail seating.

The seating works will see a marginal overall increase in capacity to approximately 42,900.

Other Projects across the summer include:

Increase of 1,300 Hospitality spaces, a new club shop, a new Fan Zone (housing up to 1,500 fans – replacing the Trinity Road Fan Zone) and LEDS inside Villa Park.  Work will also commence on the Academy building with a view to completion towards the end of 2025.

Some big stuff in here and much of it positive. 

Rail seating is really welcome in the upper and Lower Holte I think and the club in the meeting have said they're happy to talk to anyone who doesn't feel that they can stand for the whole ninety minutes about moving. The changes to gangways and entrances are about creating extra seats - they aren't going to be massive increases but they'll make a difference. It might mean that if you sat at the end of a row last season, you might not be at the end of a row next season, but again the club are open to a conversation if you're 6'9" or you have a dodgy knee and you need the room.

There will be a slight increase in capacity this summer - and it's important to note that this summer isn't end of the work - there will be an increase next summer too with more work taking place. 

It's important to note that the 1,300 additional hospitality places aren't all new places - some of those will be coming out of the GA seating - so capacity will be up by a few hundred, but the number of GA seats will be reduced by around a thousand. I'm not sure if that's a similar plan to the way things will go next summer, but I suspect the increases next summer will have much less impact as they'll be around changes to the more traditional hospitality areas and more marginal gains in GA (hopefully without the need to move existing ST holders).

Sneaked in there (and in another later question) is what was for me the most exciting little snippet - that Fan Zone building on the players car park could be something quite special - they showed us some preliminary drawings with the idea being a two tier structure with catering, built around a 'tunnel' of sorts, so that the players coach parks at the rear of the North Stand and then the players walk through this building in order to enter the stadium - surrounded by supporters as the do so. Think of it a a giant family friendly pub that the players walk through. It'll add something.

The new store will be good too, more room for more adidas, more money through the tills and a better experience. If you've been in the shop on matchdays, you'll know how much of a squeeze it is - that's very welcome.

The slight delay in the academy building will perhaps put a bit of pressure on things - we're looking at late 2025 for an opening there, it sounds like the plans are changing too, with the emphasis being on it's suitability as a multi-use matchday and concert venue. I've mentioned before but Birmingham is short of mid-sized concert venues - it has big pubs and Arenas and not a lot else in between - if this one works it could be a real bonus for the club and the region - and come the Christmas of 2025 - you'll have the choice of the players car park fan zone area, the academy/warehouse, the Holte pub or one of those GA+ lounges - you could be looking at nine or ten thousand people drinking before a game at Villa Park without any of them being in the concourses of the stands. There will be 4,500 spots to enjoy yourself pre and post match in these two areas - it could change matchdays completely for the better.

Quote

We note the advice given by the FAB that we should consider communicating significant changes outside of the FAB meeting minutes to provide clarity for fans and avoid unnecessary speculation

I really hope they do, and I really hope they make a big thing about it - what's happening at Villa Park right now represents the biggest developmental changes to the stadium since the Trinity Road Stand was built in 2000. That we only have the notes above to talk about on it at this point tells you plenty about communication.

[Captain_Townsend]

2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Some big stuff in here and much of it positive. 

Rail seating is really welcome in the upper and Lower Holte I think and the club in the meeting have said they're happy to talk to anyone who doesn't feel that they can stand for the whole ninety minutes about moving. The changes to gangways and entrances are about creating extra seats - they aren't going to be massive increases but they'll make a difference. It might mean that if you sat at the end of a row last season, you might not be at the end of a row next season, but again the club are open to a conversation if you're 6'9" or you have a dodgy knee and you need the room.

There will be a slight increase in capacity this summer - and it's important to note that this summer isn't end of the work - there will be an increase next summer too with more work taking place. 

It's important to note that the 1,300 additional hospitality places aren't all new places - some of those will be coming out of the GA seating - so capacity will be up by a few hundred, but the number of GA seats will be reduced by around a thousand. I'm not sure if that's a similar plan to the way things will go next summer, but I suspect the increases next summer will have much less impact as they'll be around changes to the more traditional hospitality areas and more marginal gains in GA (hopefully without the need to move existing ST holders).

Sneaked in there (and in another later question) is what was for me the most exciting little snippet - that Fan Zone building on the players car park could be something quite special - they showed us some preliminary drawings with the idea being a two tier structure with catering, built around a 'tunnel' of sorts, so that the players coach parks at the rear of the North Stand and then the players walk through this building in order to enter the stadium - surrounded by supporters as the do so. Think of it a a giant family friendly pub that the players walk through. It'll add something.

The new store will be good too, more room for more adidas, more money through the tills and a better experience. If you've been in the shop on matchdays, you'll know how much of a squeeze it is - that's very welcome.

The slight delay in the academy building will perhaps put a bit of pressure on things - we're looking at late 2025 for an opening there, it sounds like the plans are changing too, with the emphasis being on it's suitability as a multi-use matchday and concert venue. I've mentioned before but Birmingham is short of mid-sized concert venues - it has big pubs and Arenas and not a lot else in between - if this one works it could be a real bonus for the club and the region - and come the Christmas of 2025 - you'll have the choice of the players car park fan zone area, the academy/warehouse, the Holte pub or one of those GA+ lounges - you could be looking at nine or ten thousand people drinking before a game at Villa Park without any of them being in the concourses of the stands. There will be 4,500 spots to enjoy yourself pre and post match in these two areas - it could change matchdays completely for the better.

I really hope they do, and I really hope they make a big thing about it - what's happening at Villa Park right now represents the biggest developmental changes to the stadium since the Trinity Road Stand was built in 2000. That we only have the notes above to talk about on it at this point tells you plenty about communication.

It is all a damp squib to me. How do we go from planning 50k to, what, planning 44k at most?

[Risso]

Thanks for the estra details OBE, that's useful to read.

Totally agree you with on the point about releasing news in puff pieces. It's not like they're even any good at it. Take the first one when Heck was interviewed by the dimwit who does the after match club interviews.

"Lots of fans are really excited for the plans about the new North Stand, what can you tell us about that?"

"We're cancelling them."

I mean, that's just utterly amateurish.

[OutByEaster?]

Quote

 

Supporters would appreciate clarity on the 900-seat displacement, which has caused some panic.  Some supporters have suggested it would have been good to know their situation before the last game of the season, so they could say goodbye or inform their immediate ‘Villa family’, who they’ve sat next to for several years.

Our priority has been to ensure that those who will need to be relocated have been notified by the club, and have not found out through social media etc.

Letters have now been sent to all affected season ticket holders and explains the process on how we will find them alternative seats.  We have worked as fast as we could to identify them.  Unfortunately, we were not able to complete this work ahead of the end of the current season.

For clarity, everyone that needs to relocate will be offered a seat for the 2024/2025 season.

 

This is obviously disappointing for all of the fans involved, to be moved from a seat that some will have been in for more than twenty years is a big wrench. 

The club have at least committed to ensuring that each fan has an opportunity to move to a seat within the stand they're currently in and has said it will look at every possible means to keep groups together. 

Where a season ticket holder or group has been moved, but the season ticket holder next to them has not been asked to move, they've also said they'll look to offer that season ticket holder the chance to move with them too.

Once you make the choice to do it, there's no easy way to do it. The club is committed to doing it and is trying to find as many ways as possible to mitigate the pain felt by those that are moving. 

I think that's an honest way for the club to do this - I wish they'd communicated which 919 seats were affected better - but in the conversations we had at the meeting, I think there's a genuine concern for the people that they're moving, an understanding that it's an unpleasant experience and an actual desire to try to make it as painless as possible.

 

[OutByEaster?]

7 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

5. Ticketing

While a 5% season ticket increase has finally been announced, will there be any further category or zone shifts?

There are no further category changes or zone shifts.  A number of U18 and U14 prices will see an increase of more than 5% although their price for 2024/2025 will still represent a significant concession.

Will single match day ticket pricing match the 5% raise in season ticket prices? 

No. As discussed at the consultation meeting there will need to be a bigger increase in match-by-match pricing in order to support our ability to limit the rise in season ticket prices to 5%. As we committed to in that meeting,  we will ensure that the blended average price increase is kept to 12%.

Are the club able to provide the traditional ‘grid’ of season ticket prices, ideally for all supporters, or if not, to the group?

We will share in the coming days.

In terms of the physical season card, the FAB is concerned about a proposed charge for hard copy cards. Considering some supporters like the elderly would struggle with phone season tickets and the fact there’s been issues with scanning some phones, it’s not really on for supporters to have a price increase and then expect to pay a fee on top of that.

We propose an opt-in type box to receive a card at no extra charge, with small-print detailing environmental benefits to encourage not having a physical card.

We are moving to digital only so that will be the default.  Only by exception will a card be issued, and an online form will need completing to request a card.  Any fee for this service is TBC.

Clearly elderly or disabled who have a medical requirement will be given a card free of charge, and we will identify how fans can apply.

Firstly - I think there have been concerns about ST classifications and zoning and so on. It's positive to note that there's no further re-zoning, that the age range on pensioners isn't changing, we aren't dropping any classifications on concessions and that for the most part the 5% rise is what appears to be a 'true' figure. Hopefully we'll be able to confirm that when the 'grid' is released.

My understanding is that those U18's and U14's who will experience a larger rise are those those that would have been unreasonably affected by a double whammy of price rise and re-zoning in the last couple of years and are slowly being brought back into line instead of having taken a massive hit all in one go 

Single match tickets will be a little more difficult - but that will be influenced by demand and the potential membership changes. I suspect that Champions league tickets are going to be expensive - more than Category A expensive - we'll see I suppose.

Personally, I like having a ST card, and I know a lot of people do - but there are both cost and practical considerations that make digital tickets very attractive to clubs - I am pretty sure that all Premier league ticketing will be this way within a couple of seasons.

 

[OutByEaster?]

I think the only other thing - and to lump a few things together that I would say is that the numbers on ST's, the numbers on GA+ and numbers of hospitality are going to have an influence on the number of other tickets available at Villa Park next season.

If we have 27,000 season ticket holders (and that number will be allowed to decrease with non-renewals) and we have 3,000 away fans, and we 1,700 GA+ fans and  2,000+ in hospitality, boxes or as guests of the club and its partners  - that's getting on for 34,000 tickets that won't go on general sale. It'll leave us around 9,000 or a little less to sell for each game.

The club has more than 50,000 members and next time out, they'll be competing for around 1,000 less tickets per game than they usually do.

On that basis you can see why tiered memberships might be tempting to the club.

With no sign of a major season ticket sale any time soon and clubs generally looking to reduce season ticket numbers (I believe Fulham are looking to reduce to a 50% of capacity cap) then you can also see why a place on the season ticket waiting list (unless yours is at a very low number) isn't worth a whole lot of anything.

With that in mind, I think we'll see two things:

1.) Next to nothing on General Sale at Villa Park next season - if anything makes it through the members window, it'll be single seats or the least popular games. It might be the case where we go the whole season without opening a general sale window.

2.) Tiered memberships that will also include the waiting list - so however many levels the club wants to put in place to make you more or less likely to be able to get a ticket (or more importantly to lots of people, two together) Whether that's two main levels and a waiting list member level or however many levels they want to put in place. I think all of them will come with a cost and that the cost might be more than it has been this season. I also think that as general sale become more unlikely, more people will look to buy memberships in order to get into games and as they do, there will be more pressure on the membership to provide value by guaranteeing that access. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that there will be people looking to attend one game this season who will have a choice between GA+ or a membership and a seat in the stands for not much off the same price. The club said in the meeting that they may look to cap the number of available memberships in order to support that (a membership waiting list anyone?)

There's going to be more pressure than ever on those seats that aren't already spoken for and I can see that becoming something that causes concern going forward - not a bad problem to have, and perhaps one that might see the North Stand back on the table again in the future.

 

[nick76]

10 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think the only other thing - and to lump a few things together that I would say is that the numbers on ST's, the numbers on GA+ and numbers of hospitality are going to have an influence on the number of other tickets available at Villa Park next season.

If we have 27,000 season ticket holders (and that number will be allowed to decrease with non-renewals) and we have 3,000 away fans, and we 1,700 GA+ fans and  2,000+ in hospitality, boxes or as guests of the club and its partners  - that's getting on for 34,000 tickets that won't go on general sale. It'll leave us around 9,000 or a little less to sell for each game.

The club has more than 50,000 members and next time out, they'll be competing for around 1,000 less tickets per game than they usually do.

On that basis you can see why tiered memberships might be tempting to the club.

With no sign of a major season ticket sale any time soon and clubs generally looking to reduce season ticket numbers (I believe Fulham are looking to reduce to a 50% of capacity cap) then you can also see why a place on the season ticket waiting list (unless yours is at a very low number) isn't worth a whole lot of anything.

With that in mind, I think we'll see two things:

1.) Next to nothing on General Sale at Villa Park next season - if anything makes it through the members window, it'll be single seats or the least popular games. It might be the case where we go the whole season without opening a general sale window.

2.) Tiered memberships that will also include the waiting list - so however many levels the club wants to put in place to make you more or less likely to be able to get a ticket (or more importantly to lots of people, two together) Whether that's two main levels and a waiting list member level or however many levels they want to put in place. I think all of them will come with a cost and that the cost might be more than it has been this season. I also think that as general sale become more unlikely, more people will look to buy memberships in order to get into games and as they do, there will be more pressure on the membership to provide value by guaranteeing that access. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that there will be people looking to attend one game this season who will have a choice between GA+ or a membership and a seat in the stands for not much off the same price. The club said in the meeting that they may look to cap the number of available memberships in order to support that (a membership waiting list anyone?)

There's going to be more pressure than ever on those seats that aren't already spoken for and I can see that becoming something that causes concern going forward - not a bad problem to have, and perhaps one that might see the North Stand back on the table again in the future.

 

Did you see any more on what the LED enhancement was going to be?

 

Thanks again for all this info and your time.

Edited May 29 by nick76

[markavfc40]

@OutByEaster? thanks for posting the notes from the latest meeting and for taking the time explaining/giving your thoughts in more detail. Although we may not agree with some of what you are reporting back I am sure we all appreciate the time you are putting in. 

[OutByEaster?]

Just now, nick76 said:

Did you see any more on what the LED enhancement was going to be?

I didn't - we were there for nearly three hours and there still wasn't really time.

That's something else that doesn't really come through on the notes - for stuff like the PSR and the VAR questions, time becomes a factor - there's not much the club can actually say anyway on either topic, one being correctly confidential and the other being more of a football than fan/club thing - but the time probably stops there being enough of a conversation to create something a bit softer for the notes.

One thing I will absolutely say for this management group and for Mr Hatton in particular, is that despite the fact that we pretty much harangue him for hours on end at each and every meeting, he will sit in these meetings until we're done, not until he wants to wrap it up - he's also put in extra meetings, with there being a meeting a month now, either informally or a formal one - that's an awful lot more than most clubs are doing and is something not a lot of clubs get. 

In answer to your question though, I have no idea how the LED stuff will work, although the club do seem particularly excited by it.

 

[thabucks]

I’d expect the LEDs they refer to being banners on the tiers to be expand the available adverting space and also to help build pre match atmosphere with a choreographed light show and also when we score. And also the roof lights if not already be switched to led for efficiency and as I said be used for pre match displays. City’s pre Leipzig display and tribute to Colin bell is pretty . 

 

Edited May 29 by thabucks

[Don_Simon]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

Sneaked in there (and in another later question) is what was for me the most exciting little snippet - that Fan Zone building on the players car park could be something quite special - they showed us some preliminary drawings with the idea being a two tier structure with catering, built around a 'tunnel' of sorts, so that the players coach parks at the rear of the North Stand and then the players walk through this building in order to enter the stadium - surrounded by supporters as the do so. Think of it a a giant family friendly pub that the players walk through. It'll add something.

This sounds great!

Until we're shit again and fans chuch burgers at the players and chant "we're shit and we know we are".

[WallisFrizz]

3 hours ago, allani said:

To be honest we haven't really had to solicit an answer.  Every time anyone has asked the response has always been the same.

Yeah I agree on that, the club have said a couple of times that they have no plans to move from VP and then conspiracy theorists keep suggesting that it’s happening anyway. That’s a fan problem not a club problem.

[Risso]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

 

Sneaked in there (and in another later question) is what was for me the most exciting little snippet - that Fan Zone building on the players car park could be something quite special - they showed us some preliminary drawings with the idea being a two tier structure with catering, built around a 'tunnel' of sorts, so that the players coach parks at the rear of the North Stand and then the players walk through this building in order to enter the stadium - surrounded by supporters as the do so. Think of it a a giant family friendly pub that the players walk through. It'll add something.

 

Sounds a bit like the Tunnel Club at Man City. The players there pull up outside in a special area, then walk through the aformentioned Tunnel Club with fans on either side, giving high fives and shaking hands etc. I was there for the 3-1 away defeat last season, and it was quite impressive in an over-the-top, American sports sort of way. On this though, if it's going to be a new building surely it's several years away? They'd need planning permission first, and if it's going to take them nearly two years to just do an internal fit out of the old Stumps building, then surely something like this is even further down the road?

[OutByEaster?]

16 minutes ago, Risso said:

Sounds a bit like the Tunnel Club at Man City. The players there pull up outside in a special area, then walk through the aformentioned Tunnel Club with fans on either side, giving high fives and shaking hands etc. I was there for the 3-1 away defeat last season, and it was quite impressive in an over-the-top, American sports sort of way. On this though, if it's going to be a new building surely it's several years away? They'd need planning permission first, and if it's going to take them nearly two years to just do an internal fit out of the old Stumps building, then surely something like this is even further down the road?

I think it's a temp/perm structure - one of those modular things - as I say, we were very briefly shown a preliminary drawing on a laptop so I can't say for sure. 

I think with City, that's a hospitality area - this is designed to replace the fan park that's currently at the Trinity Road entrance - something a bit more accessible.

[mikeyp102]

@OutByEaster? thanks for posting.

On the involvement of the stadium in the Euros 28, was any further clarity given? As the notes questioned I thought it was needed a stadium expansion for acceptance 

[cheltenham_villa]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

 

Personally, I like having a ST card, and I know a lot of people do - but there are both cost and practical considerations that make digital tickets very attractive to clubs - I am pretty sure that all Premier league ticketing will be this way within a couple of seasons.

 

The other draw for the club of digital tickets is it brings more control to the resale market. At the moment an ST card is swapped about, especially on coaches. The digital card means the clubs knows how many are reselling.