General Election Pre-Thread (2 of 6)

[Demitri_C]

4 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

Sunaks lies in last nights debate quickly being exposed. Don't be surprised if the useless bastard doubles down in the next debate as they have nothing but lies and fearmongering to offer.

 

I mean mark he was asked at least 5 times and starmer didnt deny it. So starmer does not help himself either

Edited June 5 by Demitri_C

[bobzy]

9 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I mean mark he was asked at least 5 times and starmer didnt deny it. So starmer does not help himself either

I didn't watch the debate, but I imagine the thought process would've been to ignore and then provide ammunition for the day after (today).  It probably wouldn't be prudent in a 45(?) second format to constantly rebuff a lie.  Just deal with it once after the PM has repeated it enough times so you can take the position of "he continually lies" for the rest of the campaign.

[Davkaus]

6 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I didn't watch the debate, but I imagine the thought process would've been to ignore and then provide ammunition for the day after (today).  It probably wouldn't be prudent in a 45(?) second format to constantly rebuff a lie.  Just deal with it once after the PM has repeated it enough times so you can take the position of "he continually lies" for the rest of the campaign.

The way it happened is Sunak mentioned it a few times over the course of 20 minutes, and Starmer just pulled a face but didn't say a thing to contradict it.

He then (I *think* after the break so he was probably briefed to do something about it) tried to correct the record but really went into detail about how the number was arrived at, didn't finish the point, and didn't really shut it down, to the point Sunak felt comfortable bringing it up several more times.

I'm not buying that it was some masterclass in manipulation to provide more ammunition the next day tbh, it made Starmer look caught out, flustered and unable to think on his feet, but they could well turn it to their advantage.

Edited June 5 by Davkaus

[legov]

Confirmation bias - in the not too distant past the average not-paying-too-much-attention voter would have picked up on the 'tax hike' bit rather than the 'lying' part. As the dominant narrative was that Labour was tax-and-spend.

Today the dominant narrative is that Tories are inept and can't be trusted. So people are paying more attention to the fact that Sunak is lying.

That's my take anyhow.

Edited June 5 by legov

[bickster]

 

[bickster]

Titter ye not! Well go on then  

 

[bickster]

 

[Davkaus]

14 minutes ago, bickster said:

 

Glad to see Dem is spreading his political wings on Twitter.

[Davkaus]

9 minutes ago, bickster said:

Fraser Nelson and The Spectator really haven't taken Sunak lying very well as they published the figure on trust

They're clearly too **** stupid and gullible to be in this line of work then.

A politician mislead them for political gain, this can not be unprecedented.

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, Davkaus said:

The way it happened is Sunak mentioned it a few times over the course of 20 minutes, and Starmer just pulled a face but didn't say a thing to contradict it.

He then (I *think* after the break so he was probably briefed to do something about it) tried to correct the record but really went into detail about how the number was arrived at, didn't finish the point, and didn't really shut it down, to the point Sunak felt comfortable bringing it up several more times.

I'm not buying that it was some masterclass in manipulation to provide more ammunition the next day tbh, it made Starmer look caught out, flustered and unable to think on his feet, but they could well turn it to their advantage.

This is my take too

Just dismiss it simple he had plenty of opportunities 

Based on what i saw last night starmer is going to struggle in PMQ when he is getting attacked on eveey angle.

On another note no starmer or rishi for fridays debate. Rayner and modaunt will be taking their places. I think it will be more entertaining than last nights borefest

[Wainy316]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

I mean mark he was asked at least 5 times and starmer didnt deny it. So starmer does not help himself either

I thought so too but it's clear now that Starmer was laying a trap to lure Sunak into lying multiple times.

Now the chief official at the treasury has pretty much confirmed he was lying and Labour can say Sunak lied 11 times on a live TV debate.

Apart from the right wing rags, all that's being spoken about today is Sunak's false claims.

[Wainy316]

Rather than debating directly with him, he's lawyered him instead

Edited June 5 by Wainy316

[Demitri_C]

11 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

I thought so too but it's clear now that Starmer was laying a trap to lure Sunak into lying multiple times.

Now the chief official at the treasury has pretty much confirmed he was lying and Labour can say Sunak lied 11 times on a live TV debate.

Apart from the right wing rags, all that's being spoken about today is Sunak's false claims.

Im still not convinced 100% to be honest mate. He could have publicly humiliated him on live tv - which qould have made more headlines than this 

Imagine having rishi squirm and back track. That would have got starmer some real leadership points. 

[Mark Albrighton]

8 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Im still not convinced 100% to be honest mate. He could have publicly humiliated him on live tv - which qould have made more headlines than this 

Imagine having rishi squirm and back track. That would have got starmer some real leadership points. 

Presumably the idea is that the squirming and humiliation is to happen following the apparent lie. If it was deliberate.

I don’t have an opinion on whether it’s a deliberate trap or not. My gut feeling is that it’s mostly being received as white noise by those who don’t follow these things closely. “Oh the Tories don’t like Labour and think they won’t do a good job…tell me something new”.

I think most will see it as general mud slinging and won’t move the dial much, if at all.

[meregreen]

28 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Im still not convinced 100% to be honest mate. He could have publicly humiliated him on live tv - which qould have made more headlines than this 

Imagine having rishi squirm and back track. That would have got starmer some real leadership points. 

You can hit a politician with the facts full on like hitting a bus, and they still wouldn’t back track. The fact that will have the legs to keep running on this, is that Sunak is a liar.

Edited June 5 by meregreen

[bickster]

If anyone was wondering (I was)

[bickster]

10 minutes ago, meregreen said:

You can hit a politician with the facts full on like hitting a bus, and they still wouldn’t back track. The fact that will have the legs to keep running on this, is that Sunak is a liar.

It certainly appears to be the dominant strain on SM, when the likes of Dan Hodges and Fraser Nelson are stating that Sunak lied the Tory line isn’t cutting through

There is one possible positive for Sunak from it that I haven’t seen said elsewhere and that the spat has taken a good deal of attention away from Farage

[CarryOnVilla]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

If anyone was wondering (I was)

It’s probably a good indicator what the turn out will be too

[Davkaus]

I'd assumed that 2019 was a really low turnout and that voter apathy had set in after so many votes since 2015, but while it was down on 2017 and 2015, it was the next highest since 1997, so not too bad a turnout actually.

I'm not sure what to read into the lower interest there. Is it that people are so filled with apathy they're turning out because Labour doesn't give them enough hope and enthusiasm, or is it that the electorate just doesn't want to waste their time on debates for a foregone conclusion?

[meregreen]

4 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

I'd assumed that 2019 was a really low turnout and that voter apathy had set in after so many votes since 2015, but while it was down on 2017 and 2015, it was the next highest since 1997, so not too bad a turnout actually.

I'm not sure what to read into the lower interest there. Is it that people are so filled with apathy they're turning out because Toryism doesn't give them enough hope and enthusiasm, or is it that the electorate just doesn't want to waste their time on debates for a foregone conclusion?

Fixed that for you