General Election Pre-Thread (2 of 6)

[chrisp65]

[markavfc40]

I'd imagine given the huge lead Labour have in the polls Starmer would have bitten your hand off for the below before last night's debate. 

 

[LondonLax]

5 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

It’s entirely subjective of course as to which square you choose to draw as the centre of the cross.

It is more useful as a comparison between parties based on policies, though presumably it would need to be updated as more policies are released? 

[chrisp65]

1 hour ago, LondonLax said:

It’s entirely subjective of course as to which square you choose to draw as the centre of the cross.

It is more useful as a comparison between parties based on policies, though presumably it would need to be updated as more policies are released? 

Agreed, I wouldn’t put too much thought in to it, but it did feel about right.

I don’t see any manifesto or policy initiatives being pulled out that would cause a noticeable recalibration. Even that new labour energy company turned out to be nothing of the sort.

[Demitri_C]

Just massively despressing these are the two options for PM

[ml1dch]

15 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Just massively despressing these are the two options for PM

On the other hand, they're both infinitely better than the candidates that their parties presented to the electorate last time around. 

[Demitri_C]

1 minute ago, ml1dch said:

On the other hand, they're both infinitely better than the candidates that their parties presented to the electorate last time around. 

Probably true

But miles worse than brown and cameron when they were the options.

 

[ml1dch]

22 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Probably true

But miles worse than brown and cameron when they were the options.

 

Also probably true.

[markavfc40]

41 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Probably true

But miles worse than brown and cameron when they were the options.

 

Cameron was a wolf in sheep's clothing in fairness and many of the issues we see now in the NHS, Policing, social care, councils going to the wall, prisoners having to be released early due to overcrowding, increases in working poor, huge increase in children living in poverty, drop in living standards for the masses etc, etc are down to him and Osborne's ideological brutal cuts in the name of austerity. Of course he also oversaw one of the biggest acts of self harm any country has ever inflicted on itself in Brexit as he couldn't control the more nutty wing of his own party. 

There hasn't been anything like approaching a decent/good option Tory PM in my lifetime. Starmer is a million miles from being an ideal option but a million times the better option when comparing him/Labour to Sunak/the Tories. 

Edited June 5 by markavfc40

[mjmooney]

12 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

There hasn't been anything like approaching a decent/good option Tory PM in my lifetime.

John Major was the nearest thing to one. 

[fightoffyour]

10 hours ago, mjmooney said:

Carefully chosen camera angle for sure. 

[Cizzler]

9 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

It’s a bit disingenuous, using left-wing / right-wing just for “economic policies” (and then writing that in harder to read font) - when the term “right-wing” encompasses a lot more than economics.

I’m not even 100% sure what “right-wing economic policies” are? And how you can grade economic policy solely on this spectrum.

I would imagine a lot of conservatives actually define themselves as libertarian when it comes to the economy (E.g. property rights, free trade, etc..) - but then the libertarian vs. Authoritarian is solely for “social issues”.

Interesting chart nonetheless.

Edited June 5 by Cizzler

[ml1dch]

8 minutes ago, Cizzler said:

It’s a bit disingenuous, using left-wing / right-wing just for “economic policies” - when the term encompasses a lot more than economics.

And to add to that and @LondonLax's point about where you arbitrarily choose to put the centre of your axis:

The Tories are shown as being in the 95% percentile "right" on their economic policies. Yet this is still a party that has no (declared) plans to abolish the universal state pension, SMP, unemployment benefit, child benefit, disability benefit and whose top rate of income tax is higher than it was at any point under Tony Blair, with no plans to reduce it.

Where is the space to the right on that axis for a party that would propose any, or all of that? 

[Leeroy]

The debate went exactly as I expected. Same regurgitated rubbish from Sunak about how the plan is working and Starmer being dull as dishwater as usual and not actually elaborating on what Labour would do.

 

Neither covered themselves in glory really.

[Leeroy]

50 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

John Major was the nearest thing to one. 

And yet bizarrely they keep winning elections. Since 1979 we’ve had 32 years of the Tories and just 13 years of (new) Labour where they had to scrap one of their clauses to win power. Blair’s charisma also helped clearly. 
 

Always wanted to see Ken Clarke as Tory leader, one of the decent ones.

[meregreen]

1 hour ago, mjmooney said:

John Major was the nearest thing to one. 

He probably would have gone the way of all the other one nation Tories shown the door by the Tory throbbers these last few years. The current Tory Party is far more akin to UKIP.

[meregreen]

18 minutes ago, Leeroy said:

And yet bizarrely they keep winning elections. Since 1979 we’ve had 32 years of the Tories and just 13 years of (new) Labour where they had to scrap one of their clauses to win power. Blair’s charisma also helped clearly. 
 

Always wanted to see Ken Clarke as Tory leader, one of the decent ones.

Clarke lost the Tory whip in 2019 and spent his final time in Parliament as an outcast. Says a lot about this current lot.

[markavfc40]

Sunaks lies in last nights debate quickly being exposed. Don't be surprised if the useless bastard doubles down in the next debate as they have nothing but lies and fearmongering to offer.

 

[ml1dch]

God, I'd forgotten this abomination

 

[markavfc40]

31 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Sunaks lies in last nights debate quickly being exposed. Don't be surprised if the useless bastard doubles down in the next debate as they have nothing but lies and fearmongering to offer.

 

I'm starting to think Labour may have played a blinder last night. They knew about the above 2 days ago and yet let Sunak lie repeatedly during last nights debate. I'd imagine they will now milk that and use it to discredit any Tory costings of Labours proposed policies going forward.