sheepyvillian Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 30 minutes ago, Zatman said: England were not actually that good in them tournaments though. One Netherlands game that was probably it and brave losses to Germany 1990 Cameroon should have won and Spain were robbed in 96 The football was a lot more offensive than anything Southgate as offered up. The football under Hoddle was lovely to watch, at times. At least, that's a silver lining. Once again, what quality side have we beat, with any conviction, under Southgate? That football against Holland and Germany in 96 was uplifting. When have we played that kind of football under this manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 37 minutes ago, Zatman said: England were not actually that good in them tournaments though. One Netherlands game that was probably it and brave losses to Germany 1990 Cameroon should have won and Spain were robbed in 96 Overall England's best tournament performance in terms of beating quality teams was 2002 World cup. Beat Argentina 1-0 in the groups who were the tournament favourites for that. Then in last 16 won 3-0 against Denmark who'd just knocked France out in the groups. Then a good first half v Brazil and 1-0 up before the choke. Win that and it would've been Turkey in the SF and then a Germany in the final who England had beaten 5-1 less than a year previously. Played good football in that tournament aswell. After that it declined under Sven in quality of performances and the selection issues with Beckham and Gerrard-Lampard. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Unconvincing is probably the best word for that. Im not sure I’ve ever seen a bigger difference in club and international form as Phil Foden. He’s unbelievable for City and dreadful for England. Bellingham and Rice were excellent, everyone else was meh Foden is comfortable with front - foot football. Pickford was like Seaman, under Graham, in that second - half. You can sense the fear and doubt from the living - room. Soon as we play a quality side, we'll set out the stall for a penalty shootout. Fabregas was spot - on with his analysis. You have to play the tournament, not let it play you. Edited June 16 by sheepyvillian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 6 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: The football was a lot more offensive than anything Southgate as offered up. The football under Hoddle was lovely to watch, at times. At least, that's a silver lining. Once again, what quality side have we beat, with any conviction, under Southgate? That football against Holland and Germany in 96 was uplifting. When have we played that kind of football under this manager. I watched all the Euro 96 games during lockdown and England were actually terrible v the Swiss in the opening game and then had a bit of luck to beat Scotland with the Gary Mac missed penalty so there's never really been a tournament where England have been excellent from first game to when knocked out since 1966 although of course can improve as it goes along. France 98 had England losing to Romania in the groups. For tonight I think it's more the fact England had a strong start, scored about 20 minutes and instead of kicking on and getting a comfortable win like Spain or Germany it's a case of a very disjointed and directionless second half in possession with barely any quality attacks that is disappointing many. And we've seen this in the other tournaments under Southgate so not like it was out of the ordinary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 (edited) 10 hours ago, VillaChris said: Overall England's best tournament performance in terms of beating quality teams was 2002 World cup. Beat Argentina 1-0 in the groups who were the tournament favourites for that. Then in last 16 won 3-0 against Denmark who'd just knocked France out in the groups. Then a good first half v Brazil and 1-0 up before the choke. Win that and it would've been Turkey in the SF and then a Germany in the final who England had beaten 5-1 less than a year previously. Played good football in that tournament aswell. After that it declined under Sven in quality of performances and the selection issues with Beckham and Gerrard-Lampard. I agree. In the warm-up tournament the year before 1998. We played some beautiful two - touch football. Edited June 17 by sheepyvillian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 1 minute ago, VillaChris said: I watched all the Euro 96 games during lockdown and England were actually terrible v the Swiss in the opening game and then had a bit of luck to beat Scotland with the Gary Mac missed penalty so there's never really been a tournament where England have been excellent from first game to when knocked out since 1966 although of course can improve as it goes along. France 98 had England losing to Romania in the groups. For tonight I think it's more the fact England had a strong start, scored about 20 minutes and instead of kicking on and getting a comfortable win like Spain or Germany it's a case of a very disjointed and directionless second half in possession with barely any quality attacks that is disappointing many. And we've seen this in the other tournaments under Southgate so not like it was out of the ordinary. But we were superb against Holland and really good against Germany. Two quality sides. Still no - one can answer the question. What quality side have we beat under Southgate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MrBlack Posted June 16 Popular Post Share Posted June 16 The Southgate bashers (myself included) just know how the tournament will end up. We'll beat the dross, probably unconvincing, and get to the knockout round. Get drawn against someone remotely decent, and we'll lose. It's rinse and repeat for Southgate. Yes, we don't tend to lose to teams we should beat, but knowing that we can't possibly win a tournament with Southgate in charge takes away any sense of enjoyment. Maybe it's always been this way, but I definitely went in to tournaments feeling like we had a chance of winning them before Southgate. We never did so maybe those managers were actually worse. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viivvaa66 Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 53 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: Hoddle has us playing some of the best I've seen from an England team. He never had the talent we have now, that's for certain. One of the reason he didn’t had talent in his team was that Hoddle didn’t select Gazza or Le Tissier. On a more serious note, have you seen the WC 98 team he picked, there is more talent there than we have today. Hoddle team had a better GK, better defence, better attacking options. In midfield it is maybe closer, but I think the WC98 team had a better midfield too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewiek2 Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 (edited) 12 minutes ago, viivvaa66 said: One of the reason he didn’t had talent in his team was that Hoddle didn’t select Gazza or Le Tissier. On a more serious note, have you seen the WC 98 team he picked, there is more talent there than we have today. Hoddle team had a better GK, better defence, better attacking options. In midfield it is maybe closer, but I think the WC98 team had a better midfield too. Did you see Let's Tissier' debut for England? It was then that I realised why he stayed at Southampton. The players today have far better technique. Batty was terrible. Rice is decent, Bellingham is World class. Better defence, nor for me. Stones and Walker are top drawer. Konsa should be playing, tbf. The other kid isn't that bad though. A better manager would be getting a far more fluid team than Southgate is offering. There's no playing between the lines. Southgate, at times, makes it seem like the game as passed him by. Edited June 16 by sheepyvillian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 19 minutes ago, MrBlack said: The Southgate bashers (myself included) just know how the tournament will end up. We'll beat the dross, probably unconvincing, and get to the knockout round. Get drawn against someone remotely decent, and we'll lose. It's rinse and repeat for Southgate. Yes, we don't tend to lose to teams we should beat, but knowing that we can't possibly win a tournament with Southgate in charge takes away any sense of enjoyment. Maybe it's always been this way, but I definitely went in to tournaments feeling like we had a chance of winning them before Southgate. We never did so maybe those managers were actually worse. He's a really difficult manager to warm too. He has the charisma of a chess referee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 1 hour ago, VillaChris said: I think Howe will be the next manager. Poor start to next season and he'll probably get sacked by Newcastle so feels a good time to leave if approached given he's generally done well. Outsider Steve Cooper given he coached likes of Foden at under 17 level and generally done well in his club jobs. Think he might need another prem job though to be seriously in contention and think he might be in for the Leicester job. One thing we've gotten used to under this manager is the press largely behaving, instead of their previous determination to lever whoever was England manager out of the job. Whether that's because Southgate is an expert media handler with loads of industry mates, because the papers have decided their readers don't want that kind of activism any more, or just because Southgate really is so vanilla he has literally no fleas on him, is quite important. If it's the second one it won't matter who the FA pick, but if it's the first or third it might, and with Howe in particular I'd be wanting to do a bit of due diligence, really check there's nothing to those PED rumours, check there was nothing untoward about that period when Bournemouth kept paying way over market value for Liverpool youth players, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avfc96 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Rinse and repeat with Southgate. Poor opening group games, 1-0 with backs to the wall, a dreadful draw and maybe an occasional win against a minnow, (see Panama in WC 2018 and Iran WC 2022). Then scrap our way through the first knock out round, then lose to the first decent team we play. Should have been gone after that abysmal 'performance' in the 2020 Euros final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il_serpente Posted June 17 VT Supporter Share Posted June 17 England won, so therefore it will be the same players and same tactics for the next game. Never mind that Kane never got in the game or Foden was ineffective as always, or TAA is obviously not a midfielder. Never mind that an inferior Serbia team had England pegged back and would have scored at least a couple if they were halfway decent in the final third. England won, so the selections and game plan and in-game management (i.e., defend a 1-0 lead for 70 minutes and not changing anything except like for like subs late on) were spot on. More of the same! England are on a roll! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 We'll almost definitely play the same team which "smashed" Serbia in the next game, because Southgate will want to guarantee group passage. Then he'll play a few squaddies in the last game, but it'll be unbalanced and edgy, therefore making it super easy to pick the same team in the last 16 as he did the first two games It doesn't matter that we look bad with his first choice, they "know how to win". But the squaddies will be slightly knocked in their confidence, so whenever we're a goal down in the last 16 game they'll come on and play it nice and safe, without threatening at all. Then, in the press conference after our defeat, Southgate will say that having been a goal down and chasing the game, he had to "mix it up again" and bring on the awful, pointless players like Watkins, Palmer or Eze. Eze and Watkins will strugg to get picked again, but golden boy Palmer will be ok, because he plays for Chelsea, and they were really good 5 years ago or summat. That's the story. It'll only be changed if we get rid of that knob head. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 6 hours ago, MrBlack said: The Southgate bashers (myself included) just know how the tournament will end up. We'll beat the dross, probably unconvincing, and get to the knockout round. Get drawn against someone remotely decent, and we'll lose. It's rinse and repeat for Southgate. Yes, we don't tend to lose to teams we should beat, but knowing that we can't possibly win a tournament with Southgate in charge takes away any sense of enjoyment. Maybe it's always been this way, but I definitely went in to tournaments feeling like we had a chance of winning them before Southgate. We never did so maybe those managers were actually worse. Yep exactly this 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delboy54 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 After seeing the England match last night I have decided to not bother to watch any more England games, tedious to watch, predictable and devoid of any tactics other than sideways and back passes. I am going to use the time saved not watching England in either watching paint dry, cutting the lawn with nail clippers or going to a non football pub. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Can't wait until we go 1-0 up in the knockouts. Then drop 20 yards and run around like dogs side to side whilst the opposition have 75% of the ball and eventually break us down and score. Then once they score they have all the momentum and we can't get back what we had at 0-0 whilst they score again I actually hate him, and Steve Holland. Two absolute frauds. The two biggest gutless rocket polishers in football. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 I saw enough last night to know we won’t win the tournament. Some of the substitutions were bizarre. It was like he was trying to take off anyone who actually was having a good game while leaving Kane and foden out there even though they’d been awful. Better managers know how and when to tweak the system when it’s not working. Maybe we’re just spoilt these days with unai, but it’s obvious that Southgate isn’t in the same galaxy as some of the modern premier league managers. Some of europes best teams would be falling over themselves for our players but none of them would take our manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 4 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: I saw enough last night to know we won’t win the tournament. Some of the substitutions were bizarre. It was like he was trying to take off anyone who actually was having a good game while leaving Kane and foden out there even though they’d been awful. Better managers know how and when to tweak the system when it’s not working. Maybe we’re just spoilt these days with unai, but it’s obvious that Southgate isn’t in the same galaxy as some of the modern premier league managers. Some of europes best teams would be falling over themselves for our players but none of them would take our manager. Compare him to Koeman in the Dutch game, took off his 2 biggest attackers and put on a Burnley reject and he got the winner Koeman is probably at a generous best a mid table Premier League manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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