Summer Transfer Window (2024/25)

[Philosopher]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

I pretty much agree in terms of where Rogers is best - I think he's brilliant as an inside left (as is Ramsey) and with Maatsen playing out wide on the left from fullback, he'll stretch defences and give whichever of those two plays a bit of room. Philogene is probably better as a more traditional wide left player and I'm not sure our system would suit him as well as it suits Rogers and Ramsey - we protect our left full back from behind with Torres - we don't want anyone in front of him.

Philogene is right footed and wants to cut in. He doesn't want to go on the outside. That leaves plenty of room for a Maatsen or Moreno. Like I said he also is a very good presser, and gets back well the help hs fullback. 

He won't be coming into midfield, and playing as a wide midfielder like McGinn does. The great thing about Ramsey is he can do the inside forward / inverted winger role that Philogene does, but can also do the wide midfielder role. 

Iling-Jr is the strange one. As he is very much a traditional winger (left footed, left winger). Can do a job as a wing back but it's his secondary position, and his positional awareness isn't great. If we sign Hermoso then he make a lot of sense. The other thing is Maatsen is comfortable coming inside into midfield, so we could see Maatsen sometimes operating as an inverted fullback.

 

[OutByEaster?]

1 minute ago, Philosopher said:

Philogene is right footed and wants to cut in. He doesn't want to go on the outside. That leaves plenty of room for a Maatsen or Moreno. Like I said he also is a very good presser, and gets back well the help hs fullback. 

But in that position he'd be third choice behind Ramsey and Rogers - I can see why, even if we were to match the bid, he'd prefer to be a star elsewhere than have to work hard to be on our bench.

Unless we're selling a couple of course.

[CVByrne]

2 hours ago, Philosopher said:

Personally i feel Rogers is the best offensive number 10 we have. He is far better in the middle than off the left. Plus Philogene is very good in the protection he offers the fullback, which makes him very well suited to our left. 

I'm not saying we should resign him, but I wouldn't be against it. 

Yes, think Philogene could play Right Wing Back as well as LM or RM. £18m is just £3m more than our buy back option of they were promoted. 

I think the player will not want to return to us though as at Ipswich he'll play every game and if they go down he'll get another move after proving himself in the Premier League. After all we didn't want to sell him in the first place it was his desire to go and play which was the key driver. 

We've Dobbin, Rogers, Diaby, Bailey, Iling Junior and player players like JJ, McGinn etc.. in the LM/RM roles too. I can't see any reason Philogene is needed. We're stocked in the wide spaces we need other positions. 

[Philosopher]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

Play two or three of these:

Diaby, Bailey, Rogers, Ramsey, Buendia, Dobbins, Illing-Junior.

Then put two on the bench.

Where does Philogene fit into that?

 

Not sure it's as simple as that. I can see Diaby and Dobbins playing up front. Both are capable of it.

Buendia is a limited player in my opinion. I can see him being used primarily as a creative option off the bench rather than starting games. He also needs time to get back up to speed.

Dobbins and Iling-Jr are both very young and have question marks over them. They aren't ready to start games anytime soon.

Really it's 2 or 3 of Rogers, Ramsey, Diaby, and Bailey, with Iling-Jr, Dobbins, and Buendia vying for a place on the bench with the one or 2 of those not starting.

[OutByEaster?]

1 minute ago, Philosopher said:

Really it's 2 or 3 of Rogers, Ramsey, Diaby, and Bailey, with Iling-Jr, Dobbins, and Buendia vying for a place on the bench with the one or 2 of those not starting.

I'd agree - two of those would usually start, with the other two on the bench, with maybe Buendia also making the bench. So you'd be asking Philogene to give up being a star at Ipswich to battle Buendia for a spot on our bench - I just can't see it working out and I think we could use the money elsewhere.

[useless]

I think Iling-Junior is a lot better than people realize, also not sure where this idea that his postional awareness isn't great has come from, whenever I've watched him play he's looked a very mature player for his age, also he does the presssing thing, he's very good at winning the ball back, last game he played for England U21s he scored twice, but another two of the goals were a direct result of him winning the ball back, and he doesn't just want to go on the outside, he's two footed, can cut inside or go on the outside and use his left foot, he can spot a good pass too, I've actually wondered if he could be developed into a box-to-box midfielder, he's kind of got the attributes

[Philosopher]

19 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

But in that position he'd be third choice behind Ramsey and Rogers - I can see why, even if we were to match the bid, he'd prefer to be a star elsewhere than have to work hard to be on our bench.

Unless we're selling a couple of course.

Personally I'd make him back up to Ramsey, with Rogers my starting 10. Bailey starting right and Diaby back up to Bailey and Rogers. That's if he were to return. 

But I agree, I think he will prefer to be first choice at Everton or Ipswich. However I reckon McNiel is the first choice at Everton, unless they plan to play him off the right. Also Ipswich will almost certainly be relegation fodder, and offer less wages. So it's not necessarily cut and dried

 

Edited July 9 by Philosopher

[Dillon66]

I can barely recall Philogene playing on the left for us and my Hull supporting mate reckons he played almost exclusively on the right for them so I'd imagine thats where Ipswich  (or Everton) intend playing him......and he'd be cover/playing that side for us, if we re-signed him.

[useless]

The Ornstein article states that we're ready to actvate our release clause for Philogene, it also implies we're not expecting him to want to come back, but that we're going to activate the clause and give him the choice, suggests that we must have some sort of plan for him

The thing with Iling is that he's incredibly versatile can play leftback, wingback, left midfield, wide forward, as a number ten, and I think has played as a central midfielder too, he can also play on the right hand side - if either Bailey or Diaby were to get injured, he would probably become second choice for that position, so even if we were to bring in another attacker, Philogene, or someone else, there's going to be a lot of scope for him to get game time, I suspect he will get a lot more minutes than Zaniolo did for example

But I think what also has to be remembered is that we've got the likes of Young and Jimoh-Aloba, and others, coming through, these kind of players need a pathway into the first team too, and will probably take Kellyman's place as academy player on the periphery of the squad

[OutByEaster?]

26 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

Personally I'd make him back up to Ramsey, with Rogers my starting 10. Bailey starting right and Diaby back up to Bailey and Rogers. That's if he were to return. 

But I agree, I think he will prefer to be first choice at Everton or Ipswich. However I reckon McNiel is the first choice at Everton, unless they plan to play him off the right. Also Ipswich will almost certainly be relegation fodder, and offer less wages. So it's not necessarily cut and dried

I think we'll generally play either Rogers or Ramsey and either Diaby or Bailey, with McGinn, Tielemans and Barkley.

Especially at the moment, without Kamara, I can't see us going all out in the attacking positions.

 

[OutByEaster?]

I wonder if we might consider re-signing Philogene, then loaning him straight to Ipswich?

 

 

[daggy_333]

10 minutes ago, useless said:

The Ornstein article states that we're ready to actvate our release clause for Philogene, it also implies we're not expecting him to want to come back, but that we're going to activate the clause and give him the choice, suggests that we must have some sort of plan for him

The thing with Iling is that he's incredibly versatile can play leftback, wingback, left midfield, wide forward, as a number ten, and I think has played as a central midfielder too, he can also play on the right hand side - if either Bailey or Diaby were to get injured, he would probably become second choice for that position, so even if we were to bring in another attacker, Philogene, or someone else, there's going to be a lot of scope for him to get game time, I suspect he will get a lot more minutes than Zaniolo did for example

But I think what also has to be remembered is that we've got the likes of Young and Jimoh-Aloba, and others, coming through, these kind of players need a pathway into the first team too, and will probably take Kellyman's place as academy player on the periphery of the squad

Left back you say.....hmmm

Edited July 9 by daggy_333

[MSvillain]

5 hours ago, PaulMcGrath_5 said:

@Delphinho123 we have a connection going on, don’t we?

[nick76]

3 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I wonder if we might consider re-signing Philogene, then loaning him straight to Ipswich?

 

 

Why would JPB go for that? He left for that type of scenario last season.

[OutByEaster?]

2 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Why would JPB go for that? He left for that type of scenario last season.

Money primarily I'd guess, we'd essentially be investing in his future value whilst offering him a Premier league base if things don't work out. We could afford to offer him future bonuses on his next move - basically we'd be stealing Hull's profit and sharing it with him, whilst also inviting him to join us on a gamble on how well he'll do in the Premier league. 

[HeyAnty]

57 minutes ago, useless said:

The Ornstein article states that we're ready to actvate our release clause for Philogene, it also implies we're not expecting him to want to come back, but that we're going to activate the clause and give him the choice, suggests that we must have some sort of plan for him

The thing with Iling is that he's incredibly versatile can play leftback, wingback, left midfield, wide forward, as a number ten, and I think has played as a central midfielder too, he can also play on the right hand side - if either Bailey or Diaby were to get injured, he would probably become second choice for that position, so even if we were to bring in another attacker, Philogene, or someone else, there's going to be a lot of scope for him to get game time, I suspect he will get a lot more minutes than Zaniolo did for example

But I think what also has to be remembered is that we've got the likes of Young and Jimoh-Aloba, and others, coming through, these kind of players need a pathway into the first team too, and will probably take Kellyman's place as academy player on the periphery of the squad

What way does a buy back work?  Do we have to wait for a offer to be accepted from another team for us to jump in?  That thing about our clause running out tomorrow doesn’t make sense to me.  Also there was talk about 2 players being part of deal.  That could artificially increase the supposed value of him.

[Pez1974]

2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

I've not been paying attention, but how would that work? His book value must still be enormous - presumably in the region of £35m or something? - so you have to either believe Saudi are going to make a truly enormous bid unlike any we've seen them make in the last year, or you have to believe we're so desperate to get rid of him we'll crystallise a loss. Both seem very unlikely?

(I suppose he could be going on loan, but that doesn't seem much more likely either)

The 'talk' was £50m - probably BS, but as I said, this is perhaps the thing that could make Philogene a viable option.

Otherwise - why would we sign him for £18m? Unless he was another one for PSR FC. 

[Pez1974]

3 minutes ago, HeyAnty said:

What way does a buy back work?  Do we have to wait for a offer to be accepted from another team for us to jump in?  That thing about our clause running out tomorrow doesn’t make sense to me.  Also there was talk about 2 players being part of deal.  That could artificially increase the supposed value of him.

I suspect we had 48 hours to match an accepted bid - rather than it being the 10th July. 

[Philosopher]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think we'll generally play either Rogers or Ramsey and either Diaby or Bailey, with McGinn, Tielemans and Barkley.

Especially at the moment, without Kamara, I can't see us going all out in the attacking positions.

 

I think that would depend on the opposition and schedule. If we are playing Ipswich for example then an extra attacker would be better. Or if we are playing a league cup game and want to give player minutes.

[wishywashy]