Popular Post Teale's 'tache Posted July 4 Popular Post Share Posted July 4 There's very much an oversimplification of the process here, it's not as simple as picking your colours popping a badge on it and sending it off to the factories. The design process itself could be fairly short, or depending on feedback longer than you'd expect, it's not always 'yeah that looks good let's go with it', more revisions mean more time, in our 150th year you'd expect we'd try and be very thorough with it. Then getting the correct colours seems to be an art form in itself from what I've read from Rob previously, colours take to different materials differently, and there's quite a lot of testing required to get it the correct balance, and to get it right consistently, so it's not as simple as this colour, that template lets go. Also, the dyes used to get those colours need to be tested to ensure they don't run on particular fabrics, or that the particular dyes don't change the performance of the fabrics in any way, so lots of high-performance testing. I don't have any insider knowledge here, but I'd like think adidas may have multiple fabrics they use for the templates depending on how dark/bright the colours are, which might help shorten the process, but even then plenty of testing would still be required to get the specific shades we want. Some of this would have been easier had we had adidas before, but we haven't so it all needs doing from scratch. The badge is a similar deal, with many different types of badges, different materials, all different weights, shapes, colours, so again a lot of testing to ensure it stays in place, don't peel, doesn't run, doesn't weigh too much etc. This isn't for a pub team remember, everything has to be done and tested properly. Then of course there's getting all of the dyes and fabric to begin production, I'd imagine adidas have massive stocks for most of these, but adding an extra ~500,000 we're hoping to sell, late in the production cycle of the template for this year may have an effect. Then of course we need to consider the factories, we've signed up very late, and all of adidas's other contracted clients aren't just going to step aside and let Aston Villa get to the front of the queue for factory time, we'll be towards the back of the bigger clubs I'd expect. You also have to allow time for any unforeseen issues during production, every kit is different in some ways, even though the template is the same, the first run might not turn out as expected, and then you have to go a few steps back in the process before you can move forward again. Assuming everything will run smoothly rarely ends up going well. 14 months is a short run which allows some time for these kinds of issues to be ironed out. The 7/8 months we are attempting doesn't leave much room for error. There are all kinds of logistics that need to be figured out before the shirts can go on sale as well, getting them to adidas stores should be fine, but who's dealing with online distribution? We have no physical store until the season starts, so online sales are going to be vital. Ensuring the infrastructure of our online distribution can handle the extra load is just one of many other factors. I'm not even in the industry and just from reading some of Robs insights, I know it's not a simple process. Or you know, we could not bother testing, accept the first design we see and have a crap kit that's the wrong colour, where everything falls off, I'm sure the fans would love that, they are notoriously accepting of these kinds of things... /s 10 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_AA_786 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 That's fair enough and appreciate the insight into some of the process - thanks It's mad how after all that we ended up with the wet Castore kits 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 (edited) Also, being late to the party, we’re late on the production run too. We don’t jump the queue Edited July 4 by CarryOnVilla 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 All this and it'll probably still stick to the players like the Castore one if the Belgium kit is anything to go by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 1 hour ago, Teale's 'tache said: Also, the dyes used to get those colours need to be tested to ensure they don't run on particular fabrics, or that the particular dyes don't change the performance of the fabrics in any way, so lots of high-performance testing. .... Or you know, we could not bother testing, accept the first design we see and have a crap kit that's the wrong colour, where everything falls off, I'm sure the fans would love that, they are notoriously accepting of these kinds of things... /s We know what happens in both the two bolded part scenarios from last year's experience. Castore sweatgate. Given Belgium seems to have a similar issue, I imagine there's something particular about the pigments being used to create the dark claret that is causing the sweat evaporation issues we've both experienced. Quite possible we wanted to do extra testing of the resulting kit this year, and I'd be honestly disappointed in us if we hadn't learnt anything from the Castore debacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 (edited) I hope.none of our match shirts have any neon on them. Adidas seem to love neon. Aston Villa are not a neon club, especially in our centennial season. Edited July 5 by maqroll 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 5 hours ago, TreeVillan said: Tartan would be cool, not exactly sure what this is. Great shirt destroyed by neon yellow and the dated trim that connects to the shorts. The Denver Broncos did that in 1995. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icouldtelltheworld Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 18 minutes ago, maqroll said: I hope.none of our match shirts have any neon on them. Adidas seem to love neon. Aston Villa are not a neon club, especially in our bicentennial season. In 50 years time, who knows? Everything could be neon by then 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post NurembergVillan Posted July 4 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted July 4 4 hours ago, est1874 said: If I want to order 200 kits tomorrow for my local club in various sizes from youth to men's to women's teams, based on an existing template, it'll take a couple of months max to receive Now take that example and multiply it by Man Utd, Real Madrid, Arsenal, Juventus, Bayern etc - all in front of us in the queue for manufacture, all already programmed into the production schedule. Instead of printing the team colours onto fabric like amateur clubs would typically receive, imagine having to make the correct dye stuff, have it approved by the club and then dye up 4-500k metres of fabric just to make Villa shirts. At the same mill that's already doing all those other mega clubs where you're looking at more like 2-3 million metres per team. And now you've got to ship all that fabric (you can't just pop a stamp on 500k metres of fabric) from (most likely) Taiwan to wherever the shirts are being made. That there is just the absolute basics of getting a shirt made in the right colour, without all the other factors (including approvals etc) that @Teale's 'tache correctly mentioned. And you've got to ship all those finished shirts to the warehouse. You could always fly them, but that's a pricey business too, so you're looking at 6 weeks on the water. Turning a kit around in 14 months or less takes a huge effort from all involved, none of whom are sitting around twiddling their thumbs and waiting for something to do. 8 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
479Villan Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 (edited) 59 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: Now take that example and multiply it by Man Utd, Real Madrid, Arsenal, Juventus, Bayern etc - all in front of us in the queue for manufacture, all already programmed into the production schedule. Instead of printing the team colours onto fabric like amateur clubs would typically receive, imagine having to make the correct dye stuff, have it approved by the club and then dye up 4-500k metres of fabric just to make Villa shirts. At the same mill that's already doing all those other mega clubs where you're looking at more like 2-3 million metres per team. And now you've got to ship all that fabric (you can't just pop a stamp on 500k metres of fabric) from (most likely) Taiwan to wherever the shirts are being made. That there is just the absolute basics of getting a shirt made in the right colour, without all the other factors (including approvals etc) that @Teale's 'tache correctly mentioned. And you've got to ship all those finished shirts to the warehouse. You could always fly them, but that's a pricey business too, so you're looking at 6 weeks on the water. Turning a kit around in 14 months or less takes a huge effort from all involved, none of whom are sitting around twiddling their thumbs and waiting for something to do. I have never seen a shipment come in for merchandising purposes, but I have seen the hundreds of boxes that come in just to dress out an MLS team in 2 kits, training gear, anthem jackets, pre-match, socks, (and so many alternates), etc. I imagine a club with an academy like Villa orders 3-4x that, and that's just to get the damned team into gear. I saw a few kids walking into Villa Park in the days before the LFC match and each of them had seemingly different gear on, without rhyme or reason, which just went to show the complexity of the stuff we were ordering. And again, that's before one kit gets a price tag affixed to it. (But we should absolutely put the Foundation's or Acorn's stuff on the training gear if it's not going to be branded, and charge a premium to do so. And also, order ALL the damned UECL and UEFA Foundation for Children badges we can buy, beg, borrow, or steal). Edited July 4 by 479Villan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
est1874 Posted July 4 Author Share Posted July 4 8 hours ago, 479Villan said: So the “delay” (keeping in mind it’s 4 July and for the vast majority of clubs, there aren’t even leaks of kits) can’t be the complexity of design, approval, manufacturing sequencing, and shipping, but is instead the club just **** off on a revenue source for……reasons? All the marketing folks just looked at those stacks of paper for approval of design that just needed a sign off, they knew there was an £8 million sales incentive on kits, and just said…”Who wants Thai for lunch?” and left it? Sorry that I don’t believe “ordering a few kits for my Sunday league team” is equivalent to “launch several product lines for an Premier League team” but that’s just me. This has happened with almost every kit we've launched for 20 years. I've not counted because I'm too tired to be frank, but off the top of my head I think we've had 7-8 kit manufacturers in that time? What's the common denominator between all of those plus Adidas? Is it that they're really shit at doing what they seem to do reasonably competently (okay, Castore aside) for multiple other clubs? Or could it be Aston Villa? No, no, it's obviously the manufacturers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
est1874 Posted July 4 Author Share Posted July 4 5 hours ago, NurembergVillan said: Now take that example and multiply it by Man Utd, Real Madrid, Arsenal, Juventus, Bayern etc - all in front of us in the queue for manufacture, all already programmed into the production schedule. Instead of printing the team colours onto fabric like amateur clubs would typically receive, imagine having to make the correct dye stuff, have it approved by the club and then dye up 4-500k metres of fabric just to make Villa shirts. At the same mill that's already doing all those other mega clubs where you're looking at more like 2-3 million metres per team. And now you've got to ship all that fabric (you can't just pop a stamp on 500k metres of fabric) from (most likely) Taiwan to wherever the shirts are being made. That there is just the absolute basics of getting a shirt made in the right colour, without all the other factors (including approvals etc) that @Teale's 'tache correctly mentioned. And you've got to ship all those finished shirts to the warehouse. You could always fly them, but that's a pricey business too, so you're looking at 6 weeks on the water. Turning a kit around in 14 months or less takes a huge effort from all involved, none of whom are sitting around twiddling their thumbs and waiting for something to do. Cheers Rob. I do appreciate there's more complexity to it than I've allowed for, but as I said in my reply to 479Villan above, I struggle to see how it's not the club at fault when this happens to us every time, with every kit release, regardless of manufacturer or whether we've changed, or whether it's the same sponsor as previous season or not, or a new badge or not. All of the complexity of the manufacturing process and the variables at play sort of become academic when you consider that other clubs manage to do this professionally every single time, and every single time we make a balls of both the timing, the availability, and the volumes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted July 4 Moderator Share Posted July 4 8 minutes ago, est1874 said: Cheers Rob. I do appreciate there's more complexity to it than I've allowed for, but as I said in my reply to 479Villan above, I struggle to see how it's not the club at fault when this happens to us every time, with every kit release, regardless of manufacturer or whether we've changed, or whether it's the same sponsor as previous season or not, or a new badge or not. All of the complexity of the manufacturing process and the variables at play sort of become academic when you consider that other clubs manage to do this professionally every single time, and every single time we make a balls of both the timing, the availability, and the volumes. Historically I'd agree with you, largely caused by the uncertainty of manufacturer, sponsor, even club badge. I'd be staggered if we don't get the new kit at a normal time every year from now on, though. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon66 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 I just wish they'd get on with it.....the more time we waste, the longer I have to wait for my counterfeit knock off version..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 8 hours ago, icouldtelltheworld said: In 50 years time, who knows? Everything could be neon by then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 7 hours ago, NurembergVillan said: Historically I'd agree with you, largely caused by the uncertainty of manufacturer, sponsor, even club badge. I'd be staggered if we don't get the new kit at a normal time every year from now on, though. Did say last week how do you define normal though? Man utd launched their home kit 2 days ago so I think we are last from the Adidas teams (Leeds has leaked but still not official) but utd, arsenal, Newcastle, even Bayern Real Madrid juve have launched their away and third kits yet, the "excuse" that we're waiting for the euros is seemingly for everyone Nike haven't launched the Chelsea kits either and Liverpool have only done their home I get that villa fans are excited and want it now but at the same time there is a bit of the usual only looking at villa with blinkers on, any notion that everyone else has done theirs simply isn't true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted July 5 Moderator Share Posted July 5 12 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Did say last week how do you define normal though? Man utd launched their home kit 2 days ago so I think we are last from the Adidas teams (Leeds has leaked but still not official) but utd, arsenal, Newcastle, even Bayern Real Madrid juve have launched their away and third kits yet, the "excuse" that we're waiting for the euros is seemingly for everyone Nike haven't launched the Chelsea kits either and Liverpool have only done their home I get that villa fans are excited and want it now but at the same time there is a bit of the usual only looking at villa with blinkers on, any notion that everyone else has done theirs simply isn't true That's a really good post. Everyone wants to open their Christmas presents first! Club kits will be launched a little later this year because the international tournaments take up too much bandwidth in terms of publicity. I'd typically expect kits to go live within June, but we may well start seeing July as normal across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teale's 'tache Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 I think some people have seen some of the bigger clubs launch their new kits at the end of a current season and think that's a good idea, why don't we do that every year? Well, you need to not be changing anything for a start, bigger clubs tend to have bigger and longer contracts with sponsors and manufacturers, which opens up the opportunity to launch early, if nothing is changing over 2/3 years then that gives you the time frame you need for that kind of launch, also you need to be big enough that you are towards the front of the queue in terms of manufacturing, so historically you need to have sold big numbers to get that privilege. I'd also imagine some years are more preferable than others, depending on international tournaments etc. The fact is, we simply have never been in that position, we chop and change too much, which certainly doesn't help, but at the same time in the positions we've been in it has been necessary to keep chasing bigger contracts to keep up. Historically we probably have been slightly on the late side of things, but at the same time when you consider the last 20 years that is simply a representation of where we've been in the market. Hopefully, with recent successes and the people we have in charge now, that is beginning to change, but then the Betano deal is only for this season and next, I think? So again, another change on the horizon, I would hope Chris Heck is already on the case looking for that next sponsor so we can get some kind of agreement in place before we intend to start that season's kit run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) 2 hours ago, NurembergVillan said: That's a really good post. Everyone wants to open their Christmas presents first! Club kits will be launched a little later this year because the international tournaments take up too much bandwidth in terms of publicity. I'd typically expect kits to go live within June, but we may well start seeing July as normal across the board. I've no idea why people are so impatient or why it matters when they are launched. The main thing is they are available to buy 1-2 weeks before the season starts. Not waiting until November before you can get an away kit for your kid. Edited July 5 by villa89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 32 minutes ago, villa89 said: I've no idea why people are so impatient or why it matters when they are launched. The main thing is they are available to buy 1-2 weeks before the season starts. Not waiting until November before you can get an away kit for your kid. summer holidays innit I went on holiday early June, it was then my boys birthday on the 20th June, I would have bought at least 2 shirts by now, as it is I bought 2 England shirts instead, same mentality each year, only to then find that I don't like the design so it was irrelevant, i am a grown ass man who wants to proudly stroll round a hotel breakfast buffet in his villa shirt and kits are exciting in a time where there's no football so not a lot is, to me the anticipation does kind of justify the yearly change, you can see that people do want them 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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