Ratings & Reactions: Legia Warszawa v Villa

[Hobsons Choice]

27 minutes ago, onmeedson said:

Still trying to work out the logic of playing a defence with no pace and using the tactic of a high line to compound their weakness. Was it three minute's to show the flaw in the system and 90+ to  confirm that quick forwards had it beat all day. You have to have the players to play this system and being able to beat your granny in a foot race is part of the make up involved.

It can work if you have rapid full backs, and their striker is either reasonably slow or playing a false 9. Sadly neither was true last night.

[NeilS]

9 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

I'm just of the opinion that whilst Mings is out and Torres is trying to settle, add in the fact we've looked defensively frail, we shouldn't be tinkering with the defence for a while. At least until we find some defensive form of sorts. It's early in the season, players are not over stretched at the moment so we need to settle the side down before going heavy on rotation imo. 

Agreed 100%. Get off to a good start, then rest your players when you are feeling comfortable.
 

It feels like as a team we have regressed defensively back to where we were in January. The injuries to Mings and Moreno have contributed to that. I do feel we will get better again once the team gels again, but they need to play together to do that. I would have kept the back four as Digne, Pau, Konsa and Cash for last night to try and gain that time together. Lenglet and Chambers could have come on after an hour if all was going well.
 

The number 1 rule in Europe is to silence the crowd early on, we did the opposite and gave them something to shout about in the first few minutes.

I feel this is Unai’s first big error. He will sort it out though, so I am not too worried.

Edited September 22, 2023 by NeilS

[Pinebro]

17 minutes ago, striker said:

Emery made it very clear in pre-season that Villa would place more focus on the cup competitions to try and win a trophy!

Making 5+ changes contradicts that.

[andym]

We basically got done 3 times on transition, through lack of pressure on the ball when we turned it over, lazy tracking back, and some baffling decision making.

1st goal; we had players back in a decent line, but zero pressure from Chambers on the cross, and Digne looks to his left, when the player runs in behind from his right shoulder. How can a full back not expect a wide player to make a run into the box when the ball is about to be crossed in? In the build up we allowed them the easiest route out from their left back position with McGinn and Bailey offering nothing in terms of trying to prevent it.

2nd goal; Kamara loses the 50/50 challenge, Legia players get forward with desire, Villa players amble back.

3rd goal; how was he allowed to progress unimpeded to just inside the box and get a shot away from this position? Konsa and Chambers just backed off and allowed him to do what he wanted. Also note Kamara being overtaken by a Legia player who started 10 yards behind him.

 

[Hobsons Choice]

10 minutes ago, andym said:

We basically got done 3 times on transition, through lack of pressure on the ball when we turned it over, lazy tracking back, and some baffling decision making.

1st goal; we had players back in a decent line, but zero pressure from Chambers on the cross, and Digne looks to his left, when the player runs in behind from his right shoulder. How can a full back not expect a wide player to make a run into the box when the ball is about to be crossed in? In the build up we allowed them the easiest route out from their left back position with McGinn and Bailey offering nothing in terms of trying to prevent it.

2nd goal; Kamara loses the 50/50 challenge, Legia players get forward with desire, Villa players amble back.

3rd goal; how was he allowed to progress unimpeded to just inside the box and get a shot away from this position? Konsa and Chambers just backed off and allowed him to do what he wanted. Also note Kamara being overtaken by a Legia player who started 10 yards behind him.

 

I mean in that photo, you are thinking We're taking up pretty decent defensive positions. 

But after this, there is no pressure on the ball carrier, and no tackle. Premier League defenders should sort this out no problem.

[duke313]

26 minutes ago, Pinebro said:

Making 5+ changes contradicts that.

Liverpool made 11 changes, West Ham 9 and Brighton 7.  We made 5, it has to be done no matter how seriously you take the competition.

  

[Pinebro]

30 minutes ago, duke313 said:

Liverpool made 11 changes, West Ham 9 and Brighton 7.  We made 5, it has to be done no matter how seriously you take the competition.

  

Fine let's make changes then and go out of the group stage.

But then don't complain that we don't win trophies anymore

Edited September 22, 2023 by Pinebro

[NeilS]

2 hours ago, Tom13 said:

Where on earth can I watch the highlights?

If you want to punish yourself:-

Awful defending all round.

[CVByrne]

2 hours ago, BOF said:

I get the high risk playing out from the back. We all do. Problem is if you play high risk with high risk players then you're a sitting duck. Then those players compound it with bad defending in general.  Chambers invoked the spirit of Habib Beye last night. He allowed the cross for the first and was 10 yards off the runner for the second. He was MOTM for them in the 1st half. He wasn't the only bad player, but had he not been on the pitch, we wouldn't have lost that game, and Cash probably would have done other things further forward. He was our single point of failure last night. Shocking.

I think the way we are playing would be fine if you have Mings and Konsa as 2 of your back 3. Which was the entire plan for the season. Losing Mings means we rely a lot on Carlos to fill that dominant defensive CB and he's not fully game fit and is current injured.

[Strog]

12 hours ago, smg said:

After one game?  Seriously 

If we could play our best 11 every week - no injuries, suspensions etc - then I would not have made this statement. The reality is our squad isn’t good enough to rotate, like it or not we can’t play the same  players all of the time. I’d love to be proved wrong but I just don’t see it. 

[duke313]

19 minutes ago, Pinebro said:

Fine let's make changes then and go out of the group stage.

But then complain that we don't win trophies anymore

It's not like the players that didn't start and came on with 30 mins + injury time did a lot.

[TRO]

10 hours ago, KentVillan said:

This is the issue. The high back line works brilliantly when all 11 men are playing well and working together.

The problem is a few injuries or rotations and everything falls apart.

I don’t know what the answer is. We could try parking the bus, but I think some of these players would make that look poor too.

Most systems work well when all 11 are playing well and working together.....We had a problem of conceding too easily, in the pre-season, when Mings and Buendia, were fit and available, so I fear injuries, might be a cop out.

Last season against Spurs, Brighton and Chelsea away we were more conservative, and played with a more containing game, to counter for the wins......this is just open season.

This style, is way, way too open....its close to inviting teams to score, and the goals scored are school boy style....No one seems to have an appetite to get close and stop the opposition.

Mings is one of the few out and out defenders we have in the group.....I'm sorry to say this, but we have too few of his make up in the squad.....someone has to stop the opposition, and we seem to have a very dismissive view to all that.

 

[BOF]

18 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

I think the way we are playing would be fine if you have Mings and Konsa as 2 of your back 3. Which was the entire plan for the season. Losing Mings means we rely a lot on Carlos to fill that dominant defensive CB and he's not fully game fit and is current injured.

It might even have been fine with Pau alongside Lenglet with Konsa at RB. They even managed to make Konsa look like Liam Ridgewell at times, because he was trying to do too much. It was a shambles against a very ordinary team. The Mostar result got us out of jail.

[slovenian]

 

[TRO]

8 hours ago, TheMightyVillans said:

I think playing chambers was emery's biggest mistake. We should be able to cope with making one change at the back but two was too much. I think olsen might be faster than chambers.

 

to be fair....I have seen chambers play ok ish......that was a horror show.....Even UE wasn't expecting that from him, Lucas Digne was in total contrast going forward, to defending and the first goal was a shocker from him.....Clement Lenglet, looked totally not ready for this type of game ....thats 3 out of the back 4....OMG.

[allani]

12 hours ago, TRO said:

I don't think we are arrogant, we just don't appreciate the art of defending....This team in its current guise, can't defend.....and my worry is, I don't see it changing any time soon.

I disagree.  There has been plenty of talk amongst fans, members of this forum and players about having a good chance of winning this competition and launching a new chapter in our history.  I think (especially after Hibs) that many of the players expected to breeze through the group and get to the final.  How many times have people on this forum said that we could have used this competition to play Aaron Ramsey, JPB, Archer and a whole bunch of other U23 prospects.  There are plenty of clubs in the competition who play in Europe most seasons (certainly more often than us), win silverware in their respective leagues, etc.  I'm sure that many see beating a PL team as a massive scalp.  I think some of our players expected an easy night and then by the time they realised that they were in for a battle, our opponents had their tails up, had grown in confidence that they could score against us and were buoyed by their awesome support. 

We looked like a boxing world champion whose scheduled opponent had dropped out and had found someone to step in at the last moment - but had taken their eye off the ball, not trained / prepared properly expecting to win the fight easily only to find himself sitting on the canvas in the first round.  Its very hard to get the initiative back at that point and though we landed a couple of big punches, our opponent was full of belief that they could knock us back down again at will and our senses were slightly scrambled and it looked like we couldn't quite figure out what to do to get the initiative back.

Thankfully, last night wasn't a knock-out match and so we've got plenty of time to put it right and (if we play well) we can still enjoy a good run in the competition.  However, we're now under huge pressure to win our home match against Mostar.  Lose to them and 6 points adrift with 4 to play is a lot of ground to make up.  Hopefully last night was the rocket up the **** some of the players needed.  Definitely a few who should be pushing to try and get into the starting XI or cementing their place in the first team who let themselves down badly yesterday.

Edited September 22, 2023 by allani

[Mic09]

I watch a fair bit of legia. If you think the team we put out there wasn't strong enough, you are mistaken.

We just didn't want it and shit our pants. It's stevenage mk2, which is a bit worrying from a cup mastermind of Emery. 

But our quality was far greater than what they have. By miles. Legia would struggle in the championship.

I am 100% confident we will destroy them at VP. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Mic09

[TRO]

28 minutes ago, allani said:

I disagree.  There has been plenty of talk amongst fans, members of this forum and players about having a good chance of winning this competition and launching a new chapter in our history.  I think (especially after Hibs) that many of the players expected to breeze through the group and get to the final.  How many times have people on this forum said that we could have used this competition to play Aaron Ramsey, JPB, Archer and a whole bunch of other U23 prospects.  There are plenty of clubs in the competition who play in Europe most seasons (certainly more often than us), win silverware in their respective leagues, etc.  I'm sure that many see beating a PL team as a massive scalp.  I think some of our players expected an easy night and then by the time they realised that they were in for a battle, our opponents had their tails up, had grown in confidence that they could score against us and were buoyed by their awesome support. 

We looked like a boxing world champion whose scheduled opponent had dropped out and had found someone to step in at the last moment - but had taken their eye off the ball, not trained / prepared properly expecting to win the fight easily only to find himself sitting on the canvas in the first round.  Its very hard to get the initiative back at that point and though we landed a couple of big punches, our opponent was full of belief that they could knock us back down again at will and our senses were slightly scrambled and it looked like we couldn't quite figure out what to do to get the initiative back.

Thankfully, last night wasn't a knock-out match and so we've got plenty of time to put it right and (if we play well) we can still enjoy a good run in the competition.  However, we're now under huge pressure to win our home match against Mostar.  Lose to them and 6 points adrift with 4 to play is a lot of ground to make up.  Hopefully last night was the rocket up the **** some of the players needed.  Definitely a few who should be pushing to try and get into the starting XI or cementing their place in the first team who let themselves down badly yesterday.

Firstly you say you disagree.....but go on to say just about everything, I have been saying....so I really don't know where we disagree, maybe its just the word "arrogant", and I choose a slightly different slant, whilst still agreeing with you overall...but hey ho.

I agree with the sentiment, that you present....but,  I will say it my way, we are not sufficiently engaged in the art of stopping opponents, we are far too busy in trying to attack and score goals, waiting in space for the pass, before the initiative is secured.....we try to avoid in engaging in the ugly side of the game, by standing off and prefer the glory side, unfortunately football doesn't give you those options, you have to work for them.

Too many piano players, not enough piano carriers, this have been an issue for some time....and its not a one off.

I am not professing to know the answers, I just have my suspicions, like many fans.....but, if the club don't recognise the problems, emanating from last nights game, the putting it right, might take a bit longer, than we think.

I would be mortified if Unai, couldn't see the defensive Horror show, we saw.

My worry and I am not expecting folk to agree with me, is we simply don't have enough types to make the options, to fix it......you can only fix things if you have the components to do so.....I feel too many offensive tendency players are playing in defensive roles at present, and all the changes won't fix it, if that remains.

I accept, that my stance on the defensive side or our game, in many instances falls on deaf ears.

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by TRO

[StefanAVFC]

Not enough big black CDMs IMO

[KentVillan]

56 minutes ago, TRO said:

Most systems work well when all 11 are playing well and working together.....We had a problem of conceding too easily, in the pre-season, when Mings and Buendia, were fit and available, so I fear injuries, might be a cop out.

Last season against Spurs, Brighton and Chelsea away we were more conservative, and played with a more containing game, to counter for the wins......this is just open season.

This style, is way, way too open....its close to inviting teams to score, and the goals scored are school boy style....No one seems to have an appetite to get close and stop the opposition.

Mings is one of the few out and out defenders we have in the group.....I'm sorry to say this, but we have too few of his make up in the squad.....someone has to stop the opposition, and we seem to have a very dismissive view to all that.

 

I personally don't read much at all into pre-season, besides which players are looking fit and ready. I put more stock in last season, when we looked very defensively tight using a lot of the tactics that Emery is being criticised for now.

I'm not using injuries as a cop-out, but the combination of injuries and rotation meant our defence and midfield just didn't look as sharp or as balanced as it should have.

We have an excess of "ballplaying" CBs who look fine at home when we can play on the front foot, but keep getting their pants pulled down in away games. That's where we're missing Mings, as you say.

I have no issue at all with ballplaying CBs and ballplaying midfielders, but they usually need to be paired up with a more robust player, especially in games where you're likely to have to battle for the result.

Having said all that, if you drop Diaby, Watkins, Luiz, and Cash, that is something between a first team and a second string lineup. So maybe we just need to get used to the fact that rotating for a packed fixture list is a bigger ask for Emery than just focusing on the Premier League as he could last season.