Hobsons Choice Posted September 17, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 17, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: And that’s in cases where the defendant doesn’t have millions of quid and a huge loyal, rabid fan base. I just read some stuff in the comments on Facebook. My god it's Trumpian in it's delusion. Apparently if you say the word 'forsooth' every second sentence it is impossible to commit any sort of crime. Who knew, mi'lord. Edited September 17, 2023 by HKP90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted September 17, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 17, 2023 I'm just waiting for the inevitable references to Andrew Malkinson having been wrongly convicted of rape on the victim's identification. That was an utterly different scenario, and clearly a miscarriage of justice, but I fully expect it to be cited by the Brand supporters to show men as victims. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted September 17, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, mjmooney said: I'm just waiting for the inevitable references to Andrew Malkinson having been wrongly convicted of rape on the victim's identification. That was an utterly different scenario, and clearly a miscarriage of justice, but I fully expect it to be cited by the Brand supporters to show men as victims. It’s bizarre. When a single non-murderer is convicted wrongly, we don’t then start dismissing murder cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 17, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 17, 2023 47 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Its also mentally scary how people just want people to go prison without trial and havent looked at any evidence Show me one single post that suggests this. I’ll wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 17, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 17, 2023 44 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: What has that got to do with lees post? He is talking about how difficult it is to prove? Because Lee’s post revolves around these women looking for fame and attention. But they’re remaining anonymous so will receive absolutely none of that. It literally makes no sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 17, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 17, 2023 51 minutes ago, leemond2008 said: I just want to clarify, that it isn't my point at all, I'm fairly certain that the women are telling the truth and that lots more will come out over the next few days/weeks. As I said, I was playing devils advocate and just repeating some of the things I've seen on Twatter and Reddit. Yeah sorry I know that’s what you were doing. I was using “you” as a general term Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyeddie Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 50 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Its also mentally scary how people just want people to go prison without trial and havent looked at any evidence God your so dramatic its ridiculous It's not just about the legal evidence though, people will make up their mind on a gut reaction. First time I ever saw Russell Brand, my reaction was that his was an obnoxious pr*ck. The fact that these allegations have surfaced is not a surprise. I genuinely believe he is capable of these crimes. Whether he is found guilty in a court of law is another matter. Even him being found not guilty in a court would not convince me he was innocent, as our legal system is set up to protect the rich and powerful. Without physical evidence, the only people who know the truth are those directly involved, everybody else just has an opinion on which side to believe. My gut reaction is he is guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 9 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: It’s bizarre. When a single non-murderer is convicted wrongly, we don’t then start dismissing murder cases. Even to fans of Russell Brand, it's a lot harder to accept that the murder victim consented then started a witch hunt after Rape does get more scepticism than other crimes and it's not fair to the victims, but it's only natural for there to be some scepticism when it often comes down to one person's word against another - obviously in this case, it's several people's word along with supporting statements from many others about other problematic behaviour which lends it far more credibility It's very hard to get to the point of beyond reasonable doubt when there's not either physical evidence or a confession Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted September 17, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Davkaus said: I think it's important to note that nobody is "proven" not guilty, They're found not guilty if they can't be found guilty beyond all reasonable doubt. I don't think it's unreasonable for individuals to have a lower standard of proof for considering someone a wrong un than that required to criminally convict them. They couldn't pin anything on Spacey, but I wouldn't leave him alone with young boys. Indeed, and this happens all the time. People are often found guilty in Civil Courts which only require a balance of probability decision compared to Criminal Courts which require beyond all reasonable doubt. It's why victims are often paid off because they know they'll be found guilty by a Civil Court as was the case with OJ Simpson who was found guilty in a Civil Court and had to pay massive damages. It's the usual, he's guilty, everyone knows he's guilty but they can't quite get the evidence for 100% criminal conviction. I used to know a CID officer and it used to drive them crazy when they knew they'd got their man but couldn't quite get the irrefutable evidence. Defence legal teams have so many ways to cast doubt on all sorts of evidence. If you watch that real CSI programme based in Birmingham it's amazing how you think they've got a tight case but they still think they need more for a conviction. It's right to have such a high bar though because otherwise you could have many more miscarriages of justice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 Have I entered Mumsnet or something. Any men on here to give a varied opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Have I entered Mumsnet or something. Any men on here to give a varied opinion. Don’t think so. Anyway, what’s your preferred formula milk brand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted September 17, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Have I entered Mumsnet or something. Any men on here to give a varied opinion. Looks like that's a 'no'. 'Mumsnet' as a jokey insult speaks volumes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted September 17, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Davkaus said: It's very hard to get to the point of beyond reasonable doubt when there's not either physical evidence or a confession Wasn't a problem in the Lucy Letby case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Looks like that's a 'no'. 'Mumsnet' as a jokey insult speaks volumes. Jesus christ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted September 17, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: They should come forward and press charges as now its come out if they want him to be justice It's well established that many women don't come forward to press rape charges for many complex reasons, some of which have already been stated on here. It's not for you to tell them what they should do now. Plus most have probably already got a family and children now. It takes a lot to put your family through something like that, especially with the difficulty of getting a conviction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted September 17, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 17, 2023 14 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Have I entered Mumsnet or something. Any men on here to give a varied opinion. Ermmm. OK. They were probably wearing short skirts so asking for it? That OK? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, sidcow said: Ermmm. OK. They were probably wearing short skirts so asking for it? That OK? Have we heard the: He's famous so he doesn't have to rape women to get sex yet? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted September 17, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 17, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Genie said: It’s been answered multiple times already. Taking a celebrity (or anyone else) to trial for a rape accusation has an extremely low success rate. For the victim there is also the massive cost and the trauma of having to relive the event plus having all personal and sex life details made public. The victims life is changed forever. This is why in the case of Brand the female making the accusation is still not sharing her identity. This is why rape victims often don’t pursue a conviction, and the offender stays free. It's also EXACTLY why celebrities get away with so much for so long. The power and influence exerted and the lack of belief from people. No one believed it of Saville which is why he could continue unchallenged. Edited September 17, 2023 by sidcow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StefanAVFC Posted September 17, 2023 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted September 17, 2023 23 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Have I entered Mumsnet or something. Any men on here to give a varied opinion. Good lord. If I said what I wanted to say I’d be permanently banned. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 On the BBC story about his show last night Quote In the crowd, a woman held a large piece of paper, the top line of which read: "We stand by you. Accused of rape, and evidence to support it but she stands with him. WTF is wrong with people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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