Moussa Diaby

[BG_Villa_Fan]

2 hours ago, Leeroy said:

If we don’t sign anyone to replace him then I hope the posters who believe Diaby is dispensable and doesn’t require a new signing coming in don’t start slagging people off who complain during the season when we’re nowhere near 4th and we question why Diaby wasn’t properly replaced.

Let’s be real. The posters who enjoy a meltdown will complain regardless.

[_AA_786]

2 hours ago, Leeroy said:

I never said I knew better than them did I. I think people need to learn to not be so sensitive when someone gives an opposing view, I know it’s hip to be relentlessly positive on here but I don’t feel this about this sale until we get a proven replacement in.

 

I just look at our ‘final third’ players and think we are behind the other top 8 teams now. We have a good midfield, good defence generally, a world class goalkeeper and striker, but our wingers/attacking mids are mostly potential players and below strength. I even think West Ham’s players behind the striker are better than ours.

 

We basically have Bailey and Watkins as ‘sure things’. Rogers is showing great potential, but we still only have 11 games last season to go off. Ramsey and Buendia are off long term injuries and no one knows how good they will be this season, they currently aren’t even available anyway. Philogene and Iling Jr again are potential and no one knows how they will do. 
 

Spurs have Richarlison, Son, Maddison, Johnson, Werner, Kulusevski. They already have more strength than us, if they get Eze they will be much stronger than us.

 

Man Utd have Hoijlund, Zirkzee, Garnacho, Fernandes, Rashford. Again better options than us.

 

Newcastle: Gordon, Isak, Wilson, Bruno, Almiron, Barnes, Joelinton. 
 

Even West Ham have Paqueta, Bowen, Kudus, Ward Prowse. They don’t have a decent striker but the options behind are more proven than ours.

 

I think we’ve strengthened defensively and could concede under 50 goals next season but I am genuinely worried we could score at least 20 goals less next season with the goals and creativity we have lost. Anyone who thinks we won’t suffer here without further strengthening frankly has their head in the clouds.

Completely get and share some of your concern as name/profile vs name/profile, we look light compared to some of those (Spuds + United in particular). CL games and a lack of experience will also be a real test for us. Throw in Chelsea too and we'll have a challenge this year to maintain top 4 but realistically who thought we would have got it this time last summer?

4 reasons for optimisim though;

1. Our attacking options do have question marks but they're also very exciting from what we've seen. They're generally young too so will likely improve as a they play more
2. I think Unai is truly Elite. I also know he can't turn water to wine and fix every thing/player but he does seem to perform better with having teams of good skills/attributes and then creating a group ethos. We did that last year and I'd hope to see it again this year
3. Whilst some of those team look good on paper, many of those players also have major question marks...  Spuds (Son aside they're habitual underperformers and flaky players who often go missing/get injured), United (consistency issues and a weak manager), Chelsea (new manager and Enzo issue), west Ham (Kudus may go & Paqueta may get banned), Newcastle (may still lose a player and Howe will be in the press for the England job regularly so may get distracted)
4. Genuinely think I think we'll sign a higher profile player for someone for £25-60m. Whether that be on the wing/SS as some have suggested, I'd rather split the money and go for a proven striker + another CB to upgrade Carlos

Now the Euros & Copa are over, hopefully things kick on a bit. Lots of the bigger names are skipping the Olympics so that should help

Edited July 22 by _AA_786

[briny_ear]

On 17/07/2024 at 08:08, Leeroy said:

If we get £60-70m for him it’s about £30-40m profit. Then we sell Durán for £40m which would be another approx £30m profit and Cash for £25m is over £20m profit. Total profit: £80-90m.

 

I have been informed by our FFP experts that we need to make around £60m profit for next year’s accounts. Therefore, if we buy a marquee forward for £50m and a top young defender for say £30-40m on 5 year deals we will still be in the black for next year. Felix and Todibo make a lot of sense, both only 24 too which fits with our policy of buying young players this summer. 
 

We would still have the issue of having to shift Donk, Hause, Archer, Carlos, Moreno (or Digne), but hopefully we could do that. 
 

We could line up as follows:

Martinez

Konsa Todibo Torres Maatsen

Bailey Onana Tielemans McGinn

Felix

Watkins

 

Subs: Olsen, Nedelkovic, Mings, Digne, Enzo, Barkley, Rogers, Ramsey, Buendia, Philogene, Iling Jr (two players miss out)

 

Obviously Kamara coming back will give us more squad depth too.

 

McGinn arguably doesn’t start and we play Rogers or Ramsey instead.

Can't believe you haven't got Rogers in that starting line up.

[Tomaszk]

28 minutes ago, Leeroy said:

And people are being dramatic in the Ramsey thread about him leaving despite us having our best season in 30 years and he barely featured. We all react in different ways.

After Bailey and Watkins Diaby was our most productive player last season (tied with Douglas Luiz who by the way has also left). Expecting kids who have either never played regularly in a top league before (Philogene) or have done but only been a bit part player (Iling Jr) is very, very naive and I’m sorry if I offend you saying that. 

Banking everything on a currently injured Ramsey and Buendia who haven’t played regular football for a year to solve all our goal threat is also naive. 

We will definitely sign someone else anyway as Romano has already said we are actively looking for Diaby’s replacement. 

So Rogers for a whole season, JPB, Ramsey and Buendia is worse than Zaniolo and Diaby?

That's the trade that's happened in the attacking areas so far. We're better off now even if Buendia and Ramsey aren't fit.

Onana is less technically gifted than Luiz but helps us in other ways. It's a serious signing.

2 hours ago, Leeroy said:

If we don’t sign anyone to replace him then I hope the posters who believe Diaby is dispensable and doesn’t require a new signing coming in don’t start slagging people off who complain during the season when we’re nowhere near 4th and we question why Diaby wasn’t properly replaced.

Ah, that's your thinking is it. The 'we should be 4th' approach.

4th again will be another incredible season of overachieving. The hope not the expectation.

I do think we'll bring in a replacement for Diaby mind. Won't be too tough to improve on him.

[Paul33]

29 minutes ago, TRO said:

In terms of the eye test, Diaby for me had spells of close contact inactivity….that can be tempered if you are proving to be a constant threat, I’m not sure he was often enough….sure his stats were ok, and he scored some great goals……but stats as important and welcome as they are, don’t always tell the full story. He was physically negated too often.

^^^ THIS ^^^

[TRO]

37 minutes ago, Leeroy said:

I’d be very surprised if Dobbin wasn’t loaned out and sold within a year. 
 

I’d classify Tielemans and McGinn as CMs who are deployed further forward. McGinn had his best season ever last season and got 6 league goals. Tielemans never got more than 6 league goals at Leicester. Diaby had proven at Leverkusen he could get into double figures in the league and would have done so next season IMO after a season of adaptation. 
 

We are definitely weaker in those attacking positions.

I see it slightly different…..I see Tielemans and McGinn in the midfield 3, who have been deployed as CM’s……I now see Onana and Barkley/Barrenchea in the pivot, until Kamara is back….then the best and most consistent combination will surface.

My view is……When we have become more resolute at the back and midfield, and have won the initiative in games….The quality at the back, will then support the offensive, more often.

We will then paradoxically have more attack and not less…..that may sound contradictory, but it’s not. We have to have more time on the ball to dictate play, that means keeping it better, or winning it back better, either way spells control, which ultimately, wins games, most of the time.

I think Onana and Barkley whilst better defensively, will be better at progressing the ball than some may think.

Edited July 22 by TRO

[_AA_786]

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

I see it slightly different…..I see Tielemans and McGinn in the midfield 3, who have been deployed as CM’s……I now see Onana and Barkley/Barrenchea in the pivot, until Kamara is back….then the best and most consistent combination will surface.

My view is……When we have become more resolute at the back and midfield, and have won the initiative in games….The quality at the back, will then support the offensive, more often.

We will then paradoxically have more attack and not less…..that may sound contradictory, but it’s not. We have to have more time on the ball to dictate play, that means keeping it better, or winning it back better, either way spells control, which ultimately, wins games, most of the time.

I think Onana and Barkley whilst better defensively, will be better at progressing the ball than some may think.

Agreed. I don't worry so much about our attack other than the lack of a proven back-up / partner for Ollie. But you're right that especially in the CL, it will help to be better defensively and the push to more physical players intimates that Unai/Monchi are trying to drive down that goals conceded figure. 

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, _AA_786 said:

Agreed. I don't worry so much about our attack other than the lack of a proven back-up / partner for Ollie. But you're right that especially in the CL, it will help to be better defensively and the push to more physical players intimates that Unai/Monchi are trying to drive down that goals conceded figure. 

It was quite clear, when we won the European cup our forte was defensively sound….Tony Morley admitted as much, when asked.

He said “clean sheets win are a huge factor in Europe”

now I know the game is not the same as then, but the principles are, still relevant.

for me, Unai is doing just that….hugely excited, by what I am seeing.

[Don_Simon]

We would in all likelihood have to have sold a key player again next summer to comply with PSR.

Who would you choose out of Martinez, Torres, JJ (injury free and back to normal), Watkins or Diaby?

If selling Diaby means we don't have to sell the others, get it done.

[PaulC]

5 minutes ago, Don_Simon said:

We would in all likelihood have to have sold a key player again next summer to comply with PSR.

Who would you choose out of Martinez, Torres, JJ (injury free and back to normal), Watkins or Diaby?

If selling Diaby means we don't have to sell the others, get it done.

The only problem with that and PSR is you can't build anything sustainable if you have to keep selling and buying players before they reach their max potential. The system is broke.

[Leeroy]

1 hour ago, _AA_786 said:

Completely get and share some of your concern as name/profile vs name/profile, we look light compared to some of those (Spuds + United in particular). CL games and a lack of experience will also be a real test for us. Throw in Chelsea too and we'll have a challenge this year to maintain top 4 but realistically who thought we would have got it this time last summer?

4 reasons for optimisim though;

1. Our attacking options do have question marks but they're also very exciting from what we've seen. They're generally young too so will likely improve as a they play more
2. I think Unai is truly Elite. I also know he can't turn water to wine and fix every thing/player but he does seem to perform better with having teams of good skills/attributes and then creating a group ethos. We did that last year and I'd hope to see it again this year
3. Whilst some of those team look good on paper, many of those players also have major question marks...  Spuds (Son aside they're habitual underperformers and flaky players who often go missing/get injured), United (consistency issues and a weak manager), Chelsea (new manager and Enzo issue), west Ham (Kudus may go & Paqueta may get banned), Newcastle (may still lose a player and Howe will be in the press for the England job regularly so may get distracted)
4. Genuinely think I think we'll sign a higher profile player for someone for £25-60m. Whether that be on the wing/SS as some have suggested, I'd rather split the money and go for a proven striker + another CB to upgrade Carlos

Now the Euros & Copa are over, hopefully things kick on a bit. Lots of the bigger names are skipping the Olympics so that should help

I thought we would finish 5th last season as it happens. We overperformed but I thought we had an excellent summer window and went into the season in a really good place. This summer has definitely been more mixed and we still don't know when the long term injured players are going to be available. 

 

I think you're right, we will sign someone more proven, Romano has said as much. I'm intrigued to see who it is and hopefully it will be someone who can hit the ground running so our exciting youngsters like Philogene can be eased into the team.

[Leeroy]

1 hour ago, Tomaszk said:

So Rogers for a whole season, JPB, Ramsey and Buendia is worse than Zaniolo and Diaby?

That's the trade that's happened in the attacking areas so far. We're better off now even if Buendia and Ramsey aren't fit.

Onana is less technically gifted than Luiz but helps us in other ways. It's a serious signing.

Ah, that's your thinking is it. The 'we should be 4th' approach.

4th again will be another incredible season of overachieving. The hope not the expectation.

I do think we'll bring in a replacement for Diaby mind. Won't be too tough to improve on him.

Never mentioned Zaniolo. I said Luiz and Diaby. Duran soon off too. Two major weapons off bench and key player. Nearly half our G/A in the league lost from last season. You say numbers don't mean anything but they kinda do. 

 

Not expecting 4th but I think if we want to give the other teams a run for their money we need to give Emery more tools. Right now I see us 7th or 8th which would be a shame because we did so much to get 4th in the first place and regressing isn't what anyone wants. I think we'll sign someone else too, hopefully a couple of big proven signings so we go into the season confident we can upset the apple cart again.

[Leeroy]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I see it slightly different…..I see Tielemans and McGinn in the midfield 3, who have been deployed as CM’s……I now see Onana and Barkley/Barrenchea in the pivot, until Kamara is back….then the best and most consistent combination will surface.

My view is……When we have become more resolute at the back and midfield, and have won the initiative in games….The quality at the back, will then support the offensive, more often.

We will then paradoxically have more attack and not less…..that may sound contradictory, but it’s not. We have to have more time on the ball to dictate play, that means keeping it better, or winning it back better, either way spells control, which ultimately, wins games, most of the time.

I think Onana and Barkley whilst better defensively, will be better at progressing the ball than some may think.

I definitely think we are looking more robust defensively and that may free us up a bit, but we are looking too reliant on youngsters going forward at the moment.

 

Fairly sure we will bring a couple more in anyway. 

[macandally]

2 hours ago, QldVilla said:

You didn’t ask a question, you made an assumption, a poor one. 
 

If you want to live in a bubble where everyone agrees with you, fill your boots. But you think because I have a different opinion I haven’t watched some games where the most important part is fitness justifies a player now being CL ready? No thank you.

“I guess you haven’t watched the preseason games.”  A question, still no answer? 

I don’t live in a bubble, it’s a forum so typically stuff gets discussed.  You don’t think Rogers is ready, I do, there we go.  Differing opinions, personally I am not going to lose sleep over it and as United show time and time again, spunking cash is no guarantee of success.

Book mark this, Rogers is next years Bailey.  He will fly! 

[Pinebro]

I find it absurd how we can label a guy who's had 6 goals and 8 assist in his first season a flop

[VillanousOne]

4 minutes ago, Pinebro said:

I find it absurd how we can label a guy who's had 6 goals and 8 assist in his first season a flop

Didn't he score 10 overall - maybe 6 in the prem?

I am a little gutted about this one, thought he looked class at times, he was so fast and had a great shot on him. I think he lacked the physical presence needed and didn't really work playing in behind Watkins rather than on the wing. But he got better in the last part of the season, unlike Doug who looked like he was already planning his new life at Juventus.

[cheltenham_villa]

12 minutes ago, Pinebro said:

I find it absurd how we can label a guy who's had 6 goals and 8 assist in his first season a flop

while featuring in every single prem game.

Like a lot of others, I feel like Unai has earned our trust but this transfer feels like weve sold a player with 14 GA in his first season and were hoping to use all the money to buy another player who might get a similar number

[Spoony]

3 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said:

while featuring in every single prem game.

Like a lot of others, I feel like Unai has earned our trust but this transfer feels like weve sold a player with 14 GA in his first season and were hoping to use all the money to buy another player who might get a similar number

If he wants to leave though there isn’t a whole bunch we can really do. Perhaps he hasn’t really settled here. 

[The_Steve]

1 hour ago, cheltenham_villa said:

while featuring in every single prem game.

Like a lot of others, I feel like Unai has earned our trust but this transfer feels like weve sold a player with 14 GA in his first season and were hoping to use all the money to buy another player who might get a similar number

That’s where I am at. They didn’t want to sell, hence we pushed for a bigger fee and now we are looking at quality names. It’s a big ask to replace the G/A of Moussa and Dougie, but I’m sure they’ve planned for these possibilities. I’ve never felt more confident in the direction they will take us, even when losing such big squad names. 

Edited July 22 by The_Steve

[ender4]

6 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

 It’s a big ask to replace the G/A of Moussa and Diaby, but I’m sure they’ve planned for these possibilities. 

We're losing BOTH of them??!!