Tomaszk Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 56 minutes ago, lexicon said: With out-and-out attackers like Diaby, you look at their output first and foremost - goals, assists, GCA, SCA, KP etc. because that's his primary job. Not for me. Performance for everyone, all the time. Couldn't give a toss who scores the goals. If everyone is playing well, someone will. As with Watkins at the start of last season, it's a great trait with Diaby he's getting these goals while not playing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 25 minutes ago, Tom13 said: So if someone is hindering our ability to keep possession and panicking on the ball frequently, yet nabbing an assist or a key pass on one of many counter opportunities (because we're having to counter as we can't keep the ball) you see that as a positive contribution overall? You're not really describing Diaby there. He doesn't play deep enough to inhibit our ability to keep the ball if we want to slow it down or retain possession. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TreeVillan Posted July 12 Popular Post Share Posted July 12 (edited) Can we all just agree that if he stays that he has the potential to be a world class player but if he leaves he was holding us back the whole time? Edited July 12 by TreeVillan 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 6 minutes ago, Rolta said: Thing is, he also looked like a passenger for the second half of the season (while getting a couple of goals and assists). Aside from a nice goal/cross or two he looked really ineffective on the ball for the rest of the time, and in a way that was kind of worrying considering his pedigree and price. He lost the ball a lot too. Tbf alot of players were. There were ganes where ollie looked poor and luiz mcginn all dropped off towards the end. I think fatigue definitely a factor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Steero113 Posted July 12 Popular Post Share Posted July 12 38 minutes ago, Tom13 said: So if someone is hindering our ability to keep possession and panicking on the ball frequently, yet nabbing an assist or a key pass on one of many counter opportunities (because we're having to counter as we can't keep the ball) you see that as a positive contribution overall? Except he doesn't, and won't next season either. He kept the ball better than any of our out and out attackers. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 1 hour ago, Leeroy said: Ok but you see the issue here - we can't offload our castoffs so are offloading players who could make a real difference. Selling Diaby is nuts given his potential. And we will still have the same problem of having all that deadwood on our books and a bloated squad like you say so selling him doesn't actually solve anything squad wise. From a profit perspective selling Diaby makes little sense either unless we're getting really big money for him. 60m Euros which is about £50m is nothing. We paid £34.6m for him but I think the add ons have hit at least £40m now so his book value is around £32m. £18m profit does very little for us. Selling Cash and a homegrown player make much more sense than selling Diaby tbh, especially as he could be worth so much more this time next summer. It’s not just about PSR and “profit” it’s about having a bloated squad. We’re basically in a situation where we need to sell players to get more in. sell Baileys sub and it makes room for a new first teamer to come in. the “profit” just sweetens the deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 45 minutes ago, Tom13 said: So if someone is hindering our ability to keep possession and panicking on the ball frequently, yet nabbing an assist or a key pass on one of many counter opportunities (because we're having to counter as we can't keep the ball) you see that as a positive contribution overall? I'm calling this as your next "Ollie Watkins" moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon66 Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 I think the higgest certainty in all this is that if we sell him to Al Ittihad this summer, he will rock up at Newcastle within the next couple of seasons...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 Not sure what to think about this. I guess, looking at it in cold terms, Bailey is the starting right winger and we might be looking at a big name coming in to play behind Watkins. To have so much capital invested in Diaby when he might not be starting most games could be more than we're willing to accept. I was expecting Diaby to kick on this season, but at times he hasn't looked at ease here. His finishing was very frustrating too. I thought that was just something that would come good and he was getting into good positions. He's obviously a class player, even if he hasn't hit his stride here yet. The Liverpool game at VP was equal encouragement and exasperation. Worked his arse off and could have had a hattrick. So yeah, I don't know what to think. If the scenario was get JPB in as Baileys deputy, then Olmo or Felix or a world class CDM with Diaby leaving... OK. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Steero113 said: Except he doesn't, and won't next season either. He kept the ball better than any of our out and out attackers. Does disposessed just mean tackled or does it also include misplaced passes? As those stats certainly don't live up to the eye test. But tbf Bailey isn't a master at keeping possession either. Edited July 12 by Tom13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 18 minutes ago, bobzy said: I'm calling this as your next "Ollie Watkins" moment Hope you're right. I'm certainly not writing him off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 10 minutes ago, Mazrim said: So yeah, I don't know what to think. If the scenario was get JPB in as Baileys deputy, then Olmo or Felix or a world class CDM with Diaby leaving... OK. That’s the situation, maybe not them names. But that’s the situation 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 16 minutes ago, Dillon66 said: I think the higgest certainty in all this is that if we sell him to Al Ittihad this summer, he will rock up at Newcastle within the next couple of seasons...... On loan, with Newcastle chipping in with approximately 0% of his wages. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Steero113 Posted July 12 Popular Post Share Posted July 12 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Tom13 said: Does disposessed just mean tackled or does it also include misplaced passes? As those stats certainly don't live up to the eye test. But tbf Bailey isn't a master at keeping possession either. Diaby pass completion (all passes) of 79%. 23/24 season overall. Bailey 72% Rogers 75% (far less games) McGinn 79% Watkins 75% Duran 68% (far less games) Ramsey 79% (far less games) So he's joint top on pass completion with our attackers as well. So he gives the ball away less (dispossession stats), passes with at least as much accuracy as all our other attackers and contributed 19 goals and assists in his first season Which metric, exactly, is it that has underwhelmed so many on here? The eye test? Because it seems that people need their eyes testing in that case. This isn't a go at you directly, just sick and tired of the guy being labelled as 'average', 'poor' and 'disappointing' when he's just not been anything of the sort. Edited July 12 by Steero113 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPAngel Posted July 12 VT Supporter Share Posted July 12 10 minutes ago, Tom13 said: Does disposessed just mean tackled or does it also include misplaced passes? As those stats certainly don't live up to the eye test. But tbf Bailey isn't a master at keeping possession either. If you compare his passing completion % to our other more attacking players/forward thinking midfielders, Diaby seems to hold up pretty well: Ramsey - Passes Completed: 257 - Cmp% - 79.8% McGinn - Passes Completed: 972 - Cmp% - 79.5% Diaby - Passes Completed: 485 - Cmp% - 78.4% Watkins - Passes Completed: 459 - Cmp% - 75.4% Rogers - Passes Completed: 147 - Cmp% - 75.4% Bailey - Passes Completed: 573 - Cmp% - 72.5% Zaniolo - Passes Completed: 150 - Cmp% - 65.8% Also, Zaniolo was cack. Just putting that out there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPAngel Posted July 12 VT Supporter Share Posted July 12 3 minutes ago, Steero113 said: Diaby pass completion (all passes) of 79%. 23/24 season overall. Bailey 72% Rogers 75% (far less games) McGinn 79% Watkins 75% Duran 68% (far less games) Ramsey 79% (far less games) So he's joint top on pass completion with our attackers as well. So he gives the ball away less (dispossession stats), passes with at least as much accuracy as all our other attackers and contributed 19 goals and assists in his first season Which metric, exactly, is it that has underwhelmed so many on here? The eye test? Because it seems that people need their eyes testing in that case. This isn't a go at you directly, just sick and tired of the guy being labelled as 'average', 'poor' and 'disappointing' when he's just not been anything of the sort. Great minds 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 So no actual updates or any other sources bar one random Italian journalist on Twitter 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcGrath_5 Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 5 minutes ago, The_Steve said: So no actual updates or any other sources bar one random Italian journalist on Twitter Foot mercato, do they count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaParkAvenue Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 26 minutes ago, Tom13 said: Does disposessed just mean tackled or does it also include misplaced passes? As those stats certainly don't live up to the eye test. But tbf Bailey isn't a master at keeping possession either. ”Lost possession” in the stats usually includes everything. Misplaced passes, being tackled, ball going out of play, playing someone offside, shot going wide, the lot. Technically you also lose possession when you score a goal, not sure how that counts though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Field Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 12 minutes ago, Steero113 said: Diaby pass completion (all passes) of 79%. 23/24 season overall. Bailey 72% Rogers 75% (far less games) McGinn 79% Watkins 75% Duran 68% (far less games) Ramsey 79% (far less games) So he's joint top on pass completion with our attackers as well. So he gives the ball away less (dispossession stats), passes with at least as much accuracy as all our other attackers and contributed 19 goals and assists in his first season Which metric, exactly, is it that has underwhelmed so many on here? The eye test? Because it seems that people need their eyes testing in that case. This isn't a go at you directly, just sick and tired of the guy being labelled as 'average', 'poor' and 'disappointing' when he's just not been anything of the sort. I think the answer is that a feeling of disappointment from extremely high expectations has affected the "eye test". The tendency to highlight and look for faults has caused biased sampling. My opinion is that Diaby oozed class and quality, but seemed to lack confidence which caused poor decision making at times 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts