MapleVilla Posted Tuesday at 16:46 Share Posted Tuesday at 16:46 He made a goal saving block and I thought he looked good in general. Our biggest problem was Hutchinson and the like running at us past the half way line. There was virtually no pressing. We have a couple of issues at the back right now. But Pau is definitely not one of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rightdm00 Posted Tuesday at 17:53 Share Posted Tuesday at 17:53 2 hours ago, Czarnikjak said: We also finished 4th under Emery when he arrived in 22/23 season (in games he managed) without Pau. So a half season sample size without European football to deal with or a full sample size with European football. Which one tells the fuller picture. Plus, Unai had that half season to determine if Mings was enough and still went and bought Pau. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted Tuesday at 19:01 VT Supporter Share Posted Tuesday at 19:01 4 hours ago, peterw said: But that's the point. If we want to improve then unfortunately it would mean replacing players such as Torres. But you could say that about anyone in our squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted Tuesday at 19:01 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted Tuesday at 19:01 3 hours ago, Risso said: Torres is a very good footballer, he's just not an especially good defender. He’s a very good defender in 2024 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Colin79 Posted Tuesday at 19:33 Popular Post Share Posted Tuesday at 19:33 Im sure many will disagree but he’s the most important outfield player we have imo. Absolutely integral to how we play. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted Tuesday at 20:19 Share Posted Tuesday at 20:19 4 hours ago, Risso said: Torres is a very good footballer, he's just not an especially good defender. Good job we don't play him in defence then... Oh wait. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdulaziz1 Posted Wednesday at 02:36 Share Posted Wednesday at 02:36 11 hours ago, Czarnikjak said: We also finished 4th under Emery when he arrived in 22/23 season (in games he managed) without Pau. We weren’t attacking like now, we had more conservative approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterw Posted Wednesday at 08:19 Share Posted Wednesday at 08:19 13 hours ago, Stevo985 said: But you could say that about anyone in our squad You could you're right, but I'm specifically looking at areas we are at our weakest, and for all their positives our central defence has been a weakness for a while. Yes you could argue that losing the protection of Kamara has had the biggest impact on the team and leaving them exposed but that cannot explain away the amount of soft goals and big chances that we concede in the middle of the box - last weekend a prime example, capitulation at home v Brentford being another, goals v Olimpiacos also, the list is large. Torres does not win the ball in the air in defensive situations and his main attribute seems to be what he does on the ball. Yes, that is a huge positive for us but if we keep conceding goals that won't be enough. In those games I mentioned in isolation previously we condeded 11 goals and won none of them. Sides that concede that many - and as many as we have this season already - end up looking downwards because that's where they end up in the table. Its not sustainable for us to be challenging towards the top end of the table and needs to be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted Wednesday at 08:25 VT Supporter Share Posted Wednesday at 08:25 3 minutes ago, peterw said: You could you're right, but I'm specifically looking at areas we are at our weakest, and for all their positives our central defence has been a weakness for a while. Yes you could argue that losing the protection of Kamara has had the biggest impact on the team and leaving them exposed but that cannot explain away the amount of soft goals and big chances that we concede in the middle of the box - last weekend a prime example, capitulation at home v Brentford being another, goals v Olimpiacos also, the list is large. Torres does not win the ball in the air in defensive situations and his main attribute seems to be what he does on the ball. Yes, that is a huge positive for us but if we keep conceding goals that won't be enough. In those games I mentioned in isolation previously we condeded 11 goals and won none of them. Sides that concede that many - and as many as we have this season already - end up looking downwards because that's where they end up in the table. Its not sustainable for us to be challenging towards the top end of the table and needs to be addressed. Central defence is not our weakness. At all. And even when it is, it's not because of Pau, it's because we've had to put someone like Lenglet or Carlos in there and use Konsa at Right back There's a reason Pau plays pretty much every single game. And we look way worse without him I honestly think he's the first name on the team sheet after Martinez 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterw Posted Wednesday at 08:33 Share Posted Wednesday at 08:33 (edited) There are two centre halves not one. His positioning is quite often poor leaving gaps for an attacker to occupy and have a big chance to score. He is also poor against an old fashioned number 9 - look at DCL - and he hasn't much pace to speak of. Now I can temper this by stating that I'm talking about what we need from a top class defender in a team that is looking for more than last season. I think the team's balance is slightly off at the moment, but having two centre-halves who aren't elite at their main job is pretty poor. Mings was a 100 times the defender Torres is, but gives nowhere near the same on the ball. Torres can live in an Emery team because of the job done in front of him, and that he also had Luiz who would set the tempo, which didn't require Torres to step out as much as he is this season, thus leaving gaps behind him. You could be right, it may not be Torres, if so then it shows the folly in not properly replacing Luiz. Edited Wednesday at 08:34 by peterw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted Wednesday at 09:09 Share Posted Wednesday at 09:09 We conceded 39 goals in the league with him on the pitch last season, in just over 27 games worth of minutes. Pro rata that over a full 38 game season and it works out as around 54, which was 7 better than we actually let in in total, and would have been 5th best defence, behind City, Arsenal, Liverpool and surprisingly, Everton. When we actually got to play the full starting lineup Emery wanted, i.e. Digne, Pau, Konsa/Carlos, Cash/Konsa, with Kamara in front as DM, our record was played 16, won 12, drew 2, lost 2, with only 16 conceded. Unfortunately after Brentford away we never saw that again with Kamara getting suspended then injured, then Torres out over Xmas as well. He's obviously no Ming in terms of defending, but the idea that he has no ability to defend and it's a disaster defensively every time he plays is way overblown imo. The bigger concern for me is the right side, it was an issue last season, and remains so this. Most of the danger against is coming down that side, and at the weekend Ipswich were clearly targeting it. The left side with Digne and Pau has been much more solid in comparison. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted Wednesday at 09:20 VT Supporter Share Posted Wednesday at 09:20 44 minutes ago, peterw said: There are two centre halves not one. His positioning is quite often poor leaving gaps for an attacker to occupy and have a big chance to score. He is also poor against an old fashioned number 9 - look at DCL - and he hasn't much pace to speak of. Now I can temper this by stating that I'm talking about what we need from a top class defender in a team that is looking for more than last season. I think the team's balance is slightly off at the moment, but having two centre-halves who aren't elite at their main job is pretty poor. Mings was a 100 times the defender Torres is, but gives nowhere near the same on the ball. Torres can live in an Emery team because of the job done in front of him, and that he also had Luiz who would set the tempo, which didn't require Torres to step out as much as he is this season, thus leaving gaps behind him. You could be right, it may not be Torres, if so then it shows the folly in not properly replacing Luiz. Yeah, you're just wrong to be honest The problem in our defence is the right side. It's glaringly obvious. Torres was part of the defence when it was excellent. Digne, Pau, Konsa, Cash The part that's changed is the disruption at right back and having to constantly move Konsa Pau is one of our most important players. And that isn't just about defending. He's absolutely crucial to how we play football and how we start attacks Is he as good at defending as Mings and Konsa? No he isn't. But I'd argue he's more important to the team than either of them. even Konsa 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted Wednesday at 13:15 Share Posted Wednesday at 13:15 Literally one of the best footballers to ever put on the shirt. Thank you and good night. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted Wednesday at 15:57 Author Share Posted Wednesday at 15:57 2 hours ago, rodders0223 said: Literally one of the best footballers to ever put on the shirt. Thank you and good night. lol. He's not even one of the best footballers in our current team 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuwabatake Sanjuro Posted Wednesday at 20:59 Share Posted Wednesday at 20:59 World class tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted Wednesday at 21:00 Share Posted Wednesday at 21:00 GOAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted Wednesday at 21:01 Share Posted Wednesday at 21:01 5 hours ago, Delphinho123 said: lol. He's not even one of the best footballers in our current team He's one of two who could have played that pass tonight... Class act 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted Wednesday at 21:01 Share Posted Wednesday at 21:01 He's a wonderful footballer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted Wednesday at 21:02 Share Posted Wednesday at 21:02 Yep, some pass and assist that one... Defended well too, double block late in the game; shots could have gone in the goal if he wasn't alert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted Wednesday at 21:04 Share Posted Wednesday at 21:04 2 minutes ago, villa4europe said: He's one of two who could have played that pass tonight... Class act At times, I question him defensively, but yeah, having a player with his vision and range of passing at the back is fundamental to how we play. He probably isn't our best player, but as we saw when he was out last season, he may very well be our most important. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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