Jonesy7211 Posted Tuesday at 09:32 Share Posted Tuesday at 09:32 You can't blame just Pau for our defensive woes. We play a high line, we don't have a recognised RB and our LB is encouraged to play more like a wing back. We're going to let in goals. We're also missing our defensive shield in Kamara. Neither Youri or Onana are that type of player. FFP/PSR limited us in addressing these problems in the summer. Pau is top quality. We're a better team when he plays; he brings so many others in play and allows them to play. When we play against teams with a high press he's even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steero113 Posted Tuesday at 09:44 Share Posted Tuesday at 09:44 12 minutes ago, Jonesy7211 said: You can't blame just Pau for our defensive woes. We play a high line, we don't have a recognised RB and our LB is encouraged to play more like a wing back. We're going to let in goals. We're also missing our defensive shield in Kamara. Neither Youri or Onana are that type of player. FFP/PSR limited us in addressing these problems in the summer. Onana is literally our defensive shield. It's pretty much his only job in the side. His entire game is built around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy7211 Posted Tuesday at 09:47 Share Posted Tuesday at 09:47 1 minute ago, Steero113 said: Onana is literally our defensive shield. It's pretty much his only job in the side. His entire game is built around it. I don't think he's half as positionally aware as Kamara in the role, although he's much better getting forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steero113 Posted Tuesday at 09:53 Share Posted Tuesday at 09:53 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Jonesy7211 said: I don't think he's half as positionally aware as Kamara in the role, although he's much better getting forwards. I'd actually have it the other way around, Onana is a threat from set pieces but not on the same planet as Kamara in terms of passing and ability on the ball and therefore not as good going forward (I realise he has 2 league goals this season already but his record suggests this is a freak occurrence). Onana has the potential to be an elite ball winner, his range is enormous and positionally he's only going to get better under Emery. Kamara is critical for us because he provides a sophistication on the ball that is so rare, I cannot wait to see him back. EDIT: Sorry I've veered off topic as usual Edited Tuesday at 09:53 by Steero113 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted Tuesday at 10:09 Author Share Posted Tuesday at 10:09 Onana, Kamara and Tielemans in the middle for us would certainly sure us up. Change of formation needed though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted Tuesday at 11:40 Share Posted Tuesday at 11:40 3 hours ago, Czarnikjak said: we managed without him just as good as with him in Emery's first season. Couldn't disagree more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted Tuesday at 12:09 VT Supporter Share Posted Tuesday at 12:09 3 hours ago, Czarnikjak said: At the same time I agree with some posters here who point out that Pau is not actually that good as we would like to believe. If he was,he would have been picked up by City for £60m not by Villa for £30m. His physical attributes are really poor and we managed without him just as good as with him in Emery's first season. But we're Villa. Not Man City If people are expecting us to have players playing for us that are good enough to play for Man CIty or other elite teams then they're going to be disappointed. It's like saying "yeah Watkins is good but he doesn't score 30 Premier League goals a season". If he did he wouldn't be playing for us If Pau Torres was quicker and better at defending then he'd be playing for an elite team. But he isn't, so he's playing for us That doesn't mean he's not incredibly important for us 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted Tuesday at 12:45 Share Posted Tuesday at 12:45 31 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: But we're Villa. Not Man City If people are expecting us to have players playing for us that are good enough to play for Man CIty or other elite teams then they're going to be disappointed. It's like saying "yeah Watkins is good but he doesn't score 30 Premier League goals a season". If he did he wouldn't be playing for us If Pau Torres was quicker and better at defending then he'd be playing for an elite team. But he isn't, so he's playing for us That doesn't mean he's not incredibly important for us But some people here believe he would get into City's, Arsenal's, Liverpools etc starting 11s. He wouldn't, this is the point I was making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted Tuesday at 12:50 VT Supporter Share Posted Tuesday at 12:50 3 minutes ago, Czarnikjak said: But some people here believe he would get into City's, Arsenal's, Liverpools etc starting 11s. He wouldn't, this is the point I was making. Who is saying that? I think he'd have a chance of getting in ahead of Konate, but yes apart from that he wouldn't get into any of those teams' starting XI But that doesn't mean he isn't a very good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted Tuesday at 12:51 Share Posted Tuesday at 12:51 1 hour ago, Tom13 said: Couldn't disagree more How can you disagree with facts? 22/23 season under Emery 25 games, 49 points, 26 goals conceded. No Pau Torres. We did pretty well without him, and never managed this defensive quality with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted Tuesday at 14:33 VT Supporter Share Posted Tuesday at 14:33 Say it together It's. Not. Just. About. The. Defence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterw Posted Tuesday at 14:36 Share Posted Tuesday at 14:36 5 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Yep. People seem to forget this. We were gagging for him to come back because he's so crucial to the way we play. We're an obviously worse team without him. There's a reason Pau was one of Emery's first transfers, and there's a reason Emery plays him every single minute that he can. We literally don't have any other defenders who can do what he does. Not even close. We were a worse team without him because the drop off from him to Lenglet was massive. However, the results showed that with him in the team for that period from let's say March onwards didn't have too much of an effect as with him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterw Posted Tuesday at 14:39 Share Posted Tuesday at 14:39 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: Who is saying that? I think he'd have a chance of getting in ahead of Konate, but yes apart from that he wouldn't get into any of those teams' starting XI But that doesn't mean he isn't a very good player. But that's the point. If we want to improve then unfortunately it would mean replacing players such as Torres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rightdm00 Posted Tuesday at 15:17 Share Posted Tuesday at 15:17 Hilarious that some are calling Pau overrated. We finished 4th last year with him and now currently sitting 5th on goal difference. Seems like he is more than good enough. The obvious issue is Diego Carlos. In no way should he be in our starting eleven. Hopefully Mings can push him to 4th choice. Ideally between Bogarde and Swinkel one of them comes good and pushes him to 5th. The sooner Carlos isn't getting appearances for Villa the better. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted Tuesday at 15:26 Share Posted Tuesday at 15:26 7 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said: Hilarious that some are calling Pau overrated. We finished 4th last year with him and now currently sitting 5th on goal difference. Seems like he is more than good enough. The obvious issue is Diego Carlos. In no way should he be in our starting eleven. Hopefully Mings can push him to 4th choice. Ideally between Bogarde and Swinkel one of them comes good and pushes him to 5th. The sooner Carlos isn't getting appearances for Villa the better. We also finished 4th under Emery when he arrived in 22/23 season (in games he managed) without Pau. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted Tuesday at 15:29 Share Posted Tuesday at 15:29 Torres is a very good footballer, he's just not an especially good defender. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted Tuesday at 15:33 Share Posted Tuesday at 15:33 6 minutes ago, Czarnikjak said: We also finished 4th under Emery when he arrived in 22/23 season (in games he managed) without Pau. Hate to break it to you but that's not finishing in fourth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted Tuesday at 15:35 Share Posted Tuesday at 15:35 Just now, Tom13 said: Hate to break it to you but that's not finishing in fourth. PPG obviously. I'm saying it's not like we suddenly became much better team when he joined. We were very good already thanks to Emery's magic. Results didn't suddenly improve thanks to Pau. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted Tuesday at 15:38 Share Posted Tuesday at 15:38 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Czarnikjak said: PPG obviously. I'm saying it's not like we suddenly became much better team when he joined. We were very good already thanks to Emery's magic. Results didn't suddenly improve thanks to Pau. True, but we had to grind results out more in his first season. Changing the style of play (thanks to Pau and others) is more sustainable. Edited Tuesday at 15:38 by Tom13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted Tuesday at 15:44 Share Posted Tuesday at 15:44 12 minutes ago, Risso said: Torres is a very good footballer, he's just not an especially good defender. Depends what we describing being a "good defender" as. I'd wager he makes about the same number of tackles/interceptions as Ezri Konsa (they both seem to do about the same? I must be missing something) but he is not as quick nor as strong - and certainly not the latter when competing for a header. But then, I'd also wager that he's one of the most progressive centre backs in the entire league. He actively looks to carry the ball up the pitch (Konsa will typically play it to the right back or to Torres) and Torres also basically plays on the halfway line when we're attacking with the ball. So what is defending? If it's being strong, he's not especially good. If it's getting the ball away from your goal, he's one of the best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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