Stevo985 Posted Monday at 17:44 VT Supporter Share Posted Monday at 17:44 50 minutes ago, AndyM3000 said: What I've been saying to anyone who seems to think Mings will solve our problems, he's not getting in the team. Pau was signed to replace him and help us challenge for CL football, now we are there and I'm afraid we are a level above Mings. He's a fine squad player or backup, similar to what Lenglet offered us, but he's not getting in the 11 if Pau Torres is fit. The only way Mings solves our problems is if he can play right CB alongside Pau and leave Konsa at RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted Monday at 17:45 VT Supporter Share Posted Monday at 17:45 26 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: He’s the only one that can defend to a top level. But he can’t play out from the back and pass at as high a level as Pau. It’s 2024, CBs need to do more than defend. It’s why elite teams like Man City have players like John Stones playing for them. You can’t pick CBs just because they can defend well 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Delphinho123 Posted Monday at 17:48 Author Popular Post Share Posted Monday at 17:48 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: But he can’t play out from the back and pass at as high a level as Pau. It’s 2024, CBs need to do more than defend. It’s why elite teams like Man City have players like John Stones playing for them. You can’t pick CBs just because they can defend well And you can’t pick CBs just because they can pass well. Torres is overrated on here. Konsa is a much better defender and all round player. Pre injury Mings too. Our defence needs a bit of an overhaul next season tbh. New right back and a new centre half needed provided Maatsen is at the required level. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted Monday at 17:50 Share Posted Monday at 17:50 55 minutes ago, AndyM3000 said: Mings similar to what Lenglet offered us You're undoubtedly correct he's not walking into the first 11, but I'm not having him compared to Lenglet, you wash your mouth out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted Monday at 17:56 Share Posted Monday at 17:56 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: And you can’t pick CBs just because they can pass well. Torres is overrated on here. Konsa is a much better defender and all round player. Pre injury Mings too. Our defence needs a bit of an overhaul next season tbh. New right back and a new centre half needed provided Maatsen is at the required level. I agree with most of this, but wouldn't say Konsa is much better all round but is an improvement defensively. The order of central defenders who can actually defend is:- 1.Mings (by a mile) 2. Konsa 3. Carlos 3.Doris the tea lady 5. Pau If we play Pau then his partner needs to compensate for his weak areas, so needs to be more in the mould of Mings, rather than Konsa or Carlos/Doris. Edited Monday at 17:57 by Made In Aston 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted Monday at 18:04 VT Supporter Share Posted Monday at 18:04 15 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: And you can’t pick CBs just because they can pass well. Torres is overrated on here. Konsa is a much better defender and all round player. Pre injury Mings too. Our defence needs a bit of an overhaul next season tbh. New right back and a new centre half needed provided Maatsen is at the required level. Konsa yes. Mings no. Torres is a better player, and one of the main reasons we finished where we finished last season. He’s vitally important to the team 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted Monday at 19:00 Share Posted Monday at 19:00 (edited) 1 hour ago, Delphinho123 said: And you can’t pick CBs just because they can pass well. Torres is overrated on here. Konsa is a much better defender and all round player. Pre injury Mings too. Our defence needs a bit of an overhaul next season tbh. New right back and a new centre half needed provided Maatsen is at the required level. I agree. but its something the top class ones can do. Pau and Ezri are good football players, but for me, they are more like old fashioned sweepers......In my opinion 2 of the same at the same time is dangerous...but far better than Carlos They need time and are meticulous in passing out and the slow build up.....not so sure, when pacy aggressive forwards run at them or past them. They are good house keepers, who like to clean up and start sorties, they are easy on the eye, when moderate traffic is about.....I am not so sure when chaos and confusion looms and an aggressive challenge is needed. I suspect there are those forwards, who would relish playing against them. I feel they are ok if they are not exposed to willing runners. They are far from being, not good football players, but I think we need a balance/ ingredient in the team, I am not sure is there. As for Carlos, I have a real concern here. He is just not mobile, flexible or doesn't read the game well, a current liability. He would struggle to "stop a pig in an entry", currently. I think Ezri and Pau need a Dominant CB to play alongside and then the balance will look better. Edited Monday at 19:03 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted Tuesday at 00:32 Share Posted Tuesday at 00:32 7 hours ago, Delphinho123 said: Agreed. The way we play is, we let the other team score a couple and try to score more. ok 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted Tuesday at 06:10 Share Posted Tuesday at 06:10 12 hours ago, Delphinho123 said: Agreed. The way we play is, we let the other team score a couple and try to score more. Yes I forgot that Unai is just a Tim Sherwood doppelganger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted Tuesday at 06:16 Share Posted Tuesday at 06:16 12 hours ago, Delphinho123 said: Torres is overrated on here. 4th in part because of him. Worse when he was out injured. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oishiiniku_uk Posted Tuesday at 06:52 Share Posted Tuesday at 06:52 The problems at right back/right centre back and the lack of a proper defensive shield in DM are way bigger issues than Pau. I think we'll see a much more reliable defensive structure overall once Kamara is back in the team. Onana is good for last ditch tackles and defensive headers, but he doesn't have the same positional sense as Kamara or the ability to cut off attacks and carry the ball out of dangerous situations (Amadou will hopefully improve in these areas over time). As has been said, the drop off last season when both Pau and Bouba were unavailable was very noticeable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted Tuesday at 07:00 Share Posted Tuesday at 07:00 (edited) 13 hours ago, Delphinho123 said: Torres is overrated on here. Konsa is a much better defender and all round player. Pre injury Mings too. Nah. If that was the case we wouldn't have spent over £30m on Pau to come in and transform our playstyle. We don't get a CL spot without Pau. You have your mind made up on him though and I doubt you'll ever appreciate how his positives far outweigh his negatives (which are overblown anyway). Edited Tuesday at 07:03 by Tom13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oishiiniku_uk Posted Tuesday at 07:10 Share Posted Tuesday at 07:10 Are there people on here who still don't have Delphinho123 on ignore? Huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Field Posted Tuesday at 07:44 Share Posted Tuesday at 07:44 13 hours ago, Delphinho123 said: And you can’t pick CBs just because they can pass well. Torres is overrated on here. Konsa is a much better defender and all round player. Pre injury Mings too. Our defence needs a bit of an overhaul next season tbh. New right back and a new centre half needed provided Maatsen is at the required level. * it seems to have worked extremely well for us - Torres joined and was nearly ever present in a team that finished in the top 4 for the first time in god knows how many years, significantly improving our team in the only factor that matters, point wise. We have had one of our better starts to a season in a long time this season, yet our defence needs a bit of an overhaul? Are fans really expecting and demanding that we challenge for the title this season? Extreme overreaction to nothing by many fans on here and other sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted Tuesday at 08:22 Share Posted Tuesday at 08:22 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Chicken Field said: Are fans really expecting and demanding that we challenge for the title this season? Extreme overreaction to nothing by many fans on here and other sites. Some did, especially after 4 wins (failing to acknowledge these were wins against really poor teams near the bottom) some people here were claiming we are title challengers or at least we gonna walk the top 4. Another explanation for this outbursts might be the fact that some people were pissed off with the ticket pricing and were just waiting for a reason to unload their anger. At the same time I agree with some posters here who point out that Pau is not actually that good as we would like to believe. If he was,he would have been picked up by City for £60m not by Villa for £30m. His physical attributes are really poor and we managed without him just as good as with him in Emery's first season. Edited Tuesday at 08:28 by Czarnikjak 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Field Posted Tuesday at 08:47 Share Posted Tuesday at 08:47 17 minutes ago, Czarnikjak said: Some did, especially after 4 wins (failing to acknowledge these were wins against really poor teams near the bottom) some people here were claiming we are title challengers or at least we gonna walk the top 4. Another explanation for this outbursts might be the fact that some people were pissed off with the ticket pricing and were just waiting for a reason to unload their anger. At the same time I agree with some posters here who point out that Pau is not actually that good as we would like to believe. If he was,he would have been picked up by City for £60m not by Villa for £30m. His physical attributes are really poor and we managed without him just as good as with him in Emery's first season. Last season we were terrible without him - "Ending the season having secured 27 starts in the Premier League, losing on just four occasions overall saw Torres sport a slim defeat rate of just under 15%, making his £33m price tag seem like a bargain." Torres is a modern defender who compensates for the lack of traditional, physically imposing 'British bulldog' defending by defending intelligently. In modern football, it is common to see smaller players marking target men during set pieces because teams have realized that the initial aerial duel is less important than where the ball ends up afterward or who wins the second ball. Torres may not win many aerial duels, but we often regain possession after his contests. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steero113 Posted Tuesday at 08:50 Share Posted Tuesday at 08:50 15 hours ago, Delphinho123 said: Torres is overrated on here. If anything, it's the absolute opposite. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted Tuesday at 09:04 Share Posted Tuesday at 09:04 12 minutes ago, Chicken Field said: Last season we were terrible without him - "Ending the season having secured 27 starts in the Premier League, losing on just four occasions overall saw Torres sport a slim defeat rate of just under 15%, making his £33m price tag seem like a bargain." Torres is a modern defender who compensates for the lack of traditional, physically imposing 'British bulldog' defending by defending intelligently. In modern football, it is common to see smaller players marking target men during set pieces because teams have realized that the initial aerial duel is less important than where the ball ends up afterward or who wins the second ball. Torres may not win many aerial duels, but we often regain possession after his contests. We were very good without him in Emery's first season. I think our PPG in that period might have been even better than last season. Certainly we conceded less goals and had more clean sheets. I'm mostly worried about his lack of pace and strength which makes him really poor in one on one defending. Imo This is the reason why none of the "elite" teams came for him and why he lost his place in Spanish national team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterSw Posted Tuesday at 09:27 Share Posted Tuesday at 09:27 15 hours ago, Stevo985 said: The only way Mings solves our problems is if he can play right CB alongside Pau and leave Konsa at RB This is exactly what will happen once Mings is back up to speed and I can't wait to see it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted Tuesday at 09:31 VT Supporter Share Posted Tuesday at 09:31 41 minutes ago, Chicken Field said: Last season we were terrible without him - Yep. People seem to forget this. We were gagging for him to come back because he's so crucial to the way we play. We're an obviously worse team without him. There's a reason Pau was one of Emery's first transfers, and there's a reason Emery plays him every single minute that he can. We literally don't have any other defenders who can do what he does. Not even close. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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