QldVilla Posted Thursday at 21:51 VT Supporter Share Posted Thursday at 21:51 1 hour ago, mikeyp102 said: It can also be physical, you get to a point where you can longer do what you were doing before. Not at 26. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keener window-cleaner Posted Thursday at 22:04 Share Posted Thursday at 22:04 I dont agree that he has improved massively, he has always been class. He was injured some time at Leicester but when he got back on the pitch Dean Smith said he was first choice. There was negative noise from the Leicester fans, but that was probably mainly because of the rumours that he wouldn't sig a new contract and leave on a free. And of course after an injury anyone needs couple of games to get fully up to speed. When we signed him some said his legs were gone etc. I watched him play for Belgium shorly afterwards and wrote on here that he looked as athletic and sharp as ever. Dougie and Kamara was first choice for us at the beginning of the first season, nothing strange with that as they complemented each other perfectly and were used to play together. Tielemans was perceived to have a slow start for us (not being up to speed etc), also this was wrong imo, he played for Belgium and was great. For us he was played further up the pitch in the Ramsey role at times as Emery tried to find a way of playing Dougie, Kamara and Tielemans in the same team, and that made him look less good as that is not his natural position, he is not the one who makes bursting runs with the ball. His natural position is CM, and he is one of the best in Europe in that position. He has been a mainstay in that position for Belgium for many years and during the years when the were ranked no 1 in the world. No he plays with Onana who is a perfect complement to him in midfield, and he has also showed that he can play with Barkley. Tielemans is simply a complete CM. Dougie was one of my favourite Villa players ever, but Tielemans could go on and be even more important for us. Such an intelligent player and a true leader. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keener window-cleaner Posted Thursday at 22:10 Share Posted Thursday at 22:10 On 18/09/2024 at 13:34, 6065_Villa said: He's playing really well just now and his fitness looks to be up another level from last season. Love watching him play at the minute, he looks like he's gliding across the pitch. That's great and I agree with the second line and love to read that, but it's the first line I don't want to become like an established truth. Wasn't it for example the Arsenal game last season where he ran the midfield all game and then made that half of the length of the pitch run back in defense at the end of the game? How could his fitness level be better than that game for example? I think he looks better because he and his teammates continually improves under Emery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted yesterday at 08:06 Share Posted yesterday at 08:06 10 hours ago, QldVilla said: Not at 26. There are precedents in other sports that are low impact. There are precedents in football that show certain players who burst on the scene at 16, play every game, end up washed up and down the leagues in the late 20s. The reverse is also true if you look at Vardy who continues to perform at the top level (just about) despite his age suggesting he shouldn't be after breaking through later in his career. Clearly with Youri, this hasn't been the case (at least yet) but to write it off as a certainty that it was never going to happen is purely hindsight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted yesterday at 08:58 Share Posted yesterday at 08:58 10 hours ago, Keener window-cleaner said: I dont agree that he has improved massively, he has always been class. He was injured some time at Leicester but when he got back on the pitch Dean Smith said he was first choice. There was negative noise from the Leicester fans, but that was probably mainly because of the rumours that he wouldn't sig a new contract and leave on a free. And of course after an injury anyone needs couple of games to get fully up to speed. When we signed him some said his legs were gone etc. I watched him play for Belgium shorly afterwards and wrote on here that he looked as athletic and sharp as ever. Dougie and Kamara was first choice for us at the beginning of the first season, nothing strange with that as they complemented each other perfectly and were used to play together. Tielemans was perceived to have a slow start for us (not being up to speed etc), also this was wrong imo, he played for Belgium and was great. For us he was played further up the pitch in the Ramsey role at times as Emery tried to find a way of playing Dougie, Kamara and Tielemans in the same team, and that made him look less good as that is not his natural position, he is not the one who makes bursting runs with the ball. His natural position is CM, and he is one of the best in Europe in that position. He has been a mainstay in that position for Belgium for many years and during the years when the were ranked no 1 in the world. No he plays with Onana who is a perfect complement to him in midfield, and he has also showed that he can play with Barkley. Tielemans is simply a complete CM. Dougie was one of my favourite Villa players ever, but Tielemans could go on and be even more important for us. Such an intelligent player and a true leader. Some people (not on here) have said he's only been class this season. WTF?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted yesterday at 09:04 VT Supporter Share Posted yesterday at 09:04 55 minutes ago, MrBlack said: There are precedents in other sports that are low impact. There are precedents in football that show certain players who burst on the scene at 16, play every game, end up washed up and down the leagues in the late 20s. The reverse is also true if you look at Vardy who continues to perform at the top level (just about) despite his age suggesting he shouldn't be after breaking through later in his career. Clearly with Youri, this hasn't been the case (at least yet) but to write it off as a certainty that it was never going to happen is purely hindsight. It’s only hindsight if it’s after the fact. I was calling BS when the conversation was going in when we signed him last summer. If your going to use precedents you need to name them, most of them most likely were from career ending injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_10 Posted yesterday at 09:15 Share Posted yesterday at 09:15 (edited) 14 hours ago, QldVilla said: The problem with the, their legs are gone theory, is that it has nothing to do with the physical side of performance, but the psychological side. The person loses the motivation to maintain physical standards which leads to a drop in performance levels. No doubt Youri’s standards may have dropped at his previous club, but more likely from the environment and coaching at the time. Players aren’t machines and a toxic workplace will impact on their standards and performance. At Villa he has the environment to excel. Oh, Im not talking about his "legs being gone". Thats more of a fitness & burn-out issue than just pure lack of speed. Some players are blessed with speed, & others aren't. I was blessed with plenty of speed when I was younger, but I lacked any other skill (other than energy), so while I could run around a lot at a pretty pacy speed, that was the limit of my footballing abilities. Obviously Tielemans has not been blessed with speed, but he has been blessed with many other skills that make him a top quality international footballer. Just the lottery of life. And tbh, I only really mentioned it originally with Tielemans because I don't want to be one of those fans who only pop their hand up when they feel like they are correct about something. Edited yesterday at 09:29 by Andy_10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_10 Posted yesterday at 09:25 Share Posted yesterday at 09:25 (edited) 13 hours ago, QldVilla said: It’s not believable though. There are precedents in other sports eg cycling, athletics, swimming etc where athletes cover more klm’s at a young age and compete well into their 30’s at a high level. Every athlete is different, but it’s ultimately motivation or injury that impacts on performance levels. I think every individual is different though, as are their tolerances for longer term use & impact on joints & muscles. Different sports have different ways of affecting the body, so its not apples for apples when comparing long distance runners to footballers, for example, even though they both run a lot. One thing that goes in Tielemans favour though is that it's usually players who never had any pace to begin with who can play well into their 30's, even if they started very young. Don't get me wrong, I agree that mentality is a key element though. Keeping up the elite fitness, the desire to keep pushing even though you know your body doesn't want to, etc. Someone like Ronaldo has dedicated his body & mind to adaptability & even though he is slower than he once was, he has changed his game to adapt to that. But then there are players like Agbonlahor who once he lost his pace, he became just another very average player. Edited yesterday at 09:30 by Andy_10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted yesterday at 09:30 Share Posted yesterday at 09:30 4 minutes ago, Andy_10 said: Someone like Ronaldo has dedicated his body & mind to adaptability & even though he is slower than he once was, he has changed his game to adapt to that. But then there are players like Agbonlahor who once he lost his pace, he became just another very average player. What? No he hasn't Did you not see him playing for Portugal? He went off in a huff to Saudi because he didn't adapt his game as he aged. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_10 Posted yesterday at 09:33 Share Posted yesterday at 09:33 (edited) 7 minutes ago, lexicon said: What? No he hasn't Did you not see him playing for Portugal? He went off in a huff to Saudi because he didn't adapt his game as he aged. At the age of 38. Has he been as good as he was when he was running down the wing at speed, etc for the past 7 or 8 years? No, of course not. Was he still a top player in the world at the age of 36-ish? Probably. And that was down to how he adapted to losing his speed. Obviously he has been on a downward spiral for a few years, but he is nearly 40 years old. Edited yesterday at 09:38 by Andy_10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted 23 hours ago VT Supporter Share Posted 23 hours ago 17 minutes ago, Andy_10 said: I think every individual is different though, as are their tolerances for longer term use & impact on joints & muscles. Different sports have different ways of affecting the body, so its not apples for apples when comparing long distance runners to footballers, for example, even though they both run a lot. One thing that goes in Tielemans favour though is that it's usually players who never had any pace to begin with who can play well into their 30's, even if they started very young. Don't get me wrong, I agree that mentality is a key element though. Keeping up the elite fitness, the desire to keep pushing even though you know your body doesn't want to, etc. Someone like Ronaldo has dedicated his body & mind to adaptability & even though he is slower than he once was, he has changed his game to adapt to that. But then there are players like Agbonlahor who once he lost his pace, he became just another very average player. Your kidding aren’t you? When middle distance runners run it is generally on hard surfaces which on average cause stress approximately 7-10 times their body weight. Let alone that elite middle distance runners run from 120 to 200 klms per week depending on their distance. It is more than comparable and far more stress on the body than football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_10 Posted 23 hours ago Share Posted 23 hours ago (edited) Nope. I used to long distance run when I was younger & it is not comparable at all. And the biggest difference is the stop start motion when breaking into full sprints multiple times per match, coupled with the twists & turns involved when running away from, or after, other players on the pitch. And then there is the physical contact of other players while you are in the motions I mentioned. Its obviously a lot more complicated than that & there will probably be a few crossovers, & I am not saying which is actually the more stressful on the body overall in the long term, but I do not think that it is apples for apples & the only sport where players can be compared as "precedents" are within the same sports. Football/football. Running/running. Swimming/swimming. Etc. And even then, we have to accept that some peoples bodies are just more fragile than others, even when they are built in a similar way. Keinan Davis vs Romelu Lukaku, as an example. In my humble opinion. Edited 23 hours ago by Andy_10 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyjsg Posted 23 hours ago VT Supporter Share Posted 23 hours ago Just now, Andy_10 said: Nope. I used to long distance run when I was younger & it is not comparable at all. And the biggest difference is the stop start motion when breaking into full sprints multiple times per match, coupled with the twists & turns involved when running away from, or after, other players on the pitch. And then there is the physical contact of other players while you are in the motions I mentioned. Its obviously a lot more complicated that that, but I do not think that it is apples for apples & the only sport where players can be compared as "precedents" are within the same sports. Football/football. Running/running. Swimming/swimming. Etc. In my humble opinion. I run marathons regularly, im late 40s, I had way more/worse injuries playing football in my 20s as it is far more intense on the body 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobsons Choice Posted 23 hours ago VT Supporter Share Posted 23 hours ago 1 hour ago, MrBlack said: There are precedents in other sports that are low impact. There are precedents in football that show certain players who burst on the scene at 16, play every game, end up washed up and down the leagues in the late 20s. The reverse is also true if you look at Vardy who continues to perform at the top level (just about) despite his age suggesting he shouldn't be after breaking through later in his career. Clearly with Youri, this hasn't been the case (at least yet) but to write it off as a certainty that it was never going to happen is purely hindsight. In fairness Sh*thousing does not take too much physical exertion. He could probably sh*thouse and mug off the fans well into his 40's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted 23 hours ago Share Posted 23 hours ago 2 hours ago, MrBlack said: There are precedents in other sports that are low impact. There are precedents in football that show certain players who burst on the scene at 16, play every game, end up washed up and down the leagues in the late 20s. The reverse is also true if you look at Vardy who continues to perform at the top level (just about) despite his age suggesting he shouldn't be after breaking through later in his career. Clearly with Youri, this hasn't been the case (at least yet) but to write it off as a certainty that it was never going to happen is purely hindsight. I think thankfully Youri plays quite a languid style. If anything has athleticism seems massively improved at villa compared to where it was at leicester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted 22 hours ago Share Posted 22 hours ago 54 minutes ago, MotoMkali said: I think thankfully Youri plays quite a languid style. If anything has athleticism seems massively improved at villa compared to where it was at leicester. Agreed. Which shows in this case @QldVilla was right, but he wasn't definitely going to be right before it became clear that this was the case. To start, Youri showed very much the same athleticism as he did at Everton. He also suffered a number of injuries with us. They all suggested his body was struggling with what it was being asked to do. Its only over time that he's got the motivation, encouragement, coaching, and belief in his body back that he's been able to show the ability he's got, without breaking down. This proved it wasn't his body that was issue, but Everton's coaching. @Andy_10 explained why using other sports as a reference is pointless. I think footballers "legs can go" way before they're 30 if they start playing full time competitive top level football at the age of 16, QLD doesn't. And by "legs can go", I mean they can't cope with the demands of the top level game. As for referencing examples (when QLD didn't offer any himself), Pato is a good one (there are many more). Playing over 5000 minutes of top flight football before he turned 20. In his first 3 seasons aged 17, 18 and 19, he played over 25% of his competitive minutes of football. In the 14 seasons since, he's struggled to hit the heights he did, suffered numerous injuries and he now plods around in the MLS. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted 19 hours ago Share Posted 19 hours ago Him and JJ are in the Champions League team of the week! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted 19 hours ago Share Posted 19 hours ago Just now, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Him and JJ are in the Champions League team of the week! Great to see them being recognised. And so they should be. As good as Rogers was, I'm amazed how much more exposure he got compared with those two who I felt were both better. Although, if the person picking it is just doing the Garth approach of picking whoever scored then I guess it means little 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted 19 hours ago Share Posted 19 hours ago 4 minutes ago, MrBlack said: Great to see them being recognised. And so they should be. As good as Rogers was, I'm amazed how much more exposure he got compared with those two who I felt were both better. Although, if the person picking it is just doing the Garth approach of picking whoever scored then I guess it means little Garth has stopped doing the PL ones and is now doing the CL ones? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted 18 hours ago Share Posted 18 hours ago 5 hours ago, Andy_10 said: At the age of 38. Has he been as good as he was when he was running down the wing at speed, etc for the past 7 or 8 years? No, of course not. Was he still a top player in the world at the age of 36-ish? Probably. And that was down to how he adapted to losing his speed. Obviously he has been on a downward spiral for a few years, but he is nearly 40 years old. No, he wasn't - because he didn't adapt his game and tried to be the same player he was in years gone by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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