duke313 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 minute ago, CVByrne said: Exactly. It doesn't make a single bit of sense. We went to clubs who also have PSR problems with the sole purpose of not having to sell our players at a discount to other clubs who would use the end June date as a negotiating tactic to underpay for our players. We didn't put ourselves in that position and looked at players we wanted to fill gaps in our squad from those teams who wanted players from us. Lots of teams would be interested in Luiz and Chelsea had come in enquiring for Duran and Kellyman in January so we knew players they were interested in and we would be willing to sell. What about Tim? Teams lining up for him I suppose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 minute ago, CVByrne said: I think you are just completely misunderstanding what we have done this window. We chose teams who were interested in our players and who also have PSR issues because they wouldn't be teams who would lowball us for our players. Simple smart dealings in transfer market. And they have done the same. From the outside it looks like 3 clubs that all have similar kinds of issues have decided to scratch each others backs. I'm fine with that, I really am because the rules are dumb. There's nothing in them that says we can't all get together and cook up a few dealings we wouldn't have otherwise. Example....There's no doubt in my mind we would have sold Tim and signed Dobbin if it wasn't for PSR. That transfer makes zero sense to me at all unless you look at it through that lense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted June 24 VT Supporter Share Posted June 24 9 minutes ago, duke313 said: Selling Tim to Everton, and them selling Dobbins to us, tow transfers that would never happen if we both didnt have PSR issues. That might be the case, but how do you prove it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Just now, Follyfoot said: That might be the case, but how do you prove it? As i've said, they don;t need to prove anything, they will just vote to stop it happening in the future, same as they did with the 8 year contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 minute ago, Follyfoot said: That might be the case, but how do you prove it? How do you prove Chelsea selling hotels to themselves wasn't a legitimate business transaction? It doesn't pass the sniff test, like what's going on with us. Like I've said, no issue with it, but the club can't now be insisting that the league have to come down on the real enemies because we've lost the moral high ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herman22 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 43 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: The same reason we were up in arms about 115 and Chelsea selling hotels to themselves etc. What's going on with our club right now makes me very uncomfortable. We can't insist that City get the book thrown at them while doing a little bit of jiggery pokery ourselves. I get why we've done it though. To be clear though, I don't like the rules and they are to the enormous benefit of the United's and Arsenal's. Wildly profitable clubs who we wouldn't be able to compete with if the rules were being strictly enforced with no loopholes. Which is why they'll complain, because they'll want to protect their advantage. Comparing what Villa are doing right now and what Citya have done over the last 10 years is literally chalk and cheese. Like saying throwing your grass cutting over your neighbours fence and burning their house to the ground is the same thing. What City have does is systematically and knowingly break the rules and refuse to provide required information for years. What we are doing is working within the rules in a slightly inventive way! Essentially opposite ends of the scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcGrath_5 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Just now, duke313 said: They can still sell players to each other, it just won;t count towards PSR. Same way as Chelsea can still offer people 8 year contracts, it just anything over 5 years dosen't count towards PSR, so there is no benefit in doing it anymore. Right, but how do you determine if the sale is based purely on PSR or a legitimate interest in the player? You simply can't, it's not possible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Just now, PaulMcGrath_5 said: Right, but how do you determine if the sale is based purely on PSR or a legitimate interest in the player? You simply can't, it's not possible. How often do teams buy players off each other in the same window? Practically never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 14 hours ago, allani said: All because they have been able to exploit their position with all the new money that has come into football. There were no rules around commercial deals when they started making them - now any deal that we make will be assessed as needing to be in line with market value - which by its very nature means that if we got a deal better than Liverpool then questions would be asked. FFP / PSR protects Liverpool and makes it difficult for us to challenge them. His points about City are different - that's about State ownership. But don't for one second think that the financial backing of Liverpool's owners hasn't helped them in any way. Of course its helped them. My point is that Liverpool have been doing for years what villa are now trying to do. I understand that the current rules make it harder for us to challenge them but this frustration should be aimed at Chelsea, United, City. Clubs that have reported huge losses. From my perspective, Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal have generally been examples of what we are now trying to do, they just had the forsight to do it years ago. Part of our frustration at PSR should also be aimed at our inability to take action and modernise our club years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herman22 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 4 minutes ago, duke313 said: They can still sell players to each other, it just won;t count towards PSR. Same way as Chelsea can still offer people 8 year contracts, it just anything over 5 years dosen't count towards PSR, so there is no benefit in doing it anymore. PSR already only benefits the high income teams, hence why we're doing this. You might as well call this the “small clubs must sell their best players to big clubs or we will dock you points” rule. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcGrath_5 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 minute ago, duke313 said: How often do teams buy players off each other in the same window? Practically never. Again, what you're saying is not factual--therefore, it can't be proven and rules implemented against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_AA_786 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Due to employment law i'm pretty sure the FA can't restrict where we chose to sell our players or where they chose to go. All they can do is alter the PSR calculation logic. Hence my window/season transfer netting suggestion as the only viable solution I can think of. Even then it's a bit **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 3 minutes ago, PaulMcGrath_5 said: Again, what you're saying is not factual--therefore, it can't be proven and rules implemented against it. If teams are using it to gain an advantage, it can and almost certainly will be stopped. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Just now, _AA_786 said: Due to employment law i'm pretty sure the FA can't restrict where we chose to sell our players or where they chose to go. All they can do is alter the PSR calculation logic. Hence my window/season transfer netting suggestion as the only viable solution I can think of. Even then it's a bit **** That is precisely what they will try and do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcGrath_5 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Just now, duke313 said: If teams are using it to gain an advantage, it can and almost certainly will be stopped. I am tapping out of this one as it seems you're not grasping the point that multiple posters are trying to make. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Just now, PaulMcGrath_5 said: I am tapping out of this one as it seems you're not grasping the point that multiple posters are trying to make. What point am I not grasping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 15 hours ago, allani said: This from a Liverpool supporting friend of mine: I love how he is convinced that Liverpool are victims of PSR and not massive benefactors of it. Liverpool are always the victims. Break out the black arm bands. In reality PSR allows the clubs with the biggest Global fanbase to stay at the top and have nobody challenge them. Money buys success in football. It's been that way for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 They should force Liverpool to buy back all the players they sold to Bournemouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 hour ago, desensitized43 said: The same reason we were up in arms about 115 and Chelsea selling hotels to themselves etc. What's going on with our club right now makes me very uncomfortable. We can't insist that City get the book thrown at them while doing a little bit of jiggery pokery ourselves. I get why we've done it though. To be clear though, I don't like the rules and they are to the enormous benefit of the United's and Arsenal's. Wildly profitable clubs who we wouldn't be able to compete with if the rules were being strictly enforced with no loopholes. Which is why they'll complain, because they'll want to protect their advantage. City have been carrying out full on financial fraud. We've sold a player and bought a player. It's not even close to what city have done 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 21 minutes ago, duke313 said: If teams are using it to gain an advantage, it can and almost certainly will be stopped. ..... and then clubs will find another way of a dodge. Just like paying tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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