osmark86 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Just now, bobzy said: Has it? Didn't they charge them early last year? I believe UEFA charged them and banned them from competing with added monetary penalties, but those were overturned and the fine reduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Just now, osmark86 said: I believe UEFA charged them and banned them from competing with added monetary penalties, but those were overturned and the fine reduced. Different charges from an entirely different body. Nothing to do with the Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osmark86 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) 5 minutes ago, bobzy said: Different charges from an entirely different body. Nothing to do with the Premier League. No exactly, those are the only ones I've heard of being addressed in court. Of the pending 115 for FFP charges I've heard nothing being charged, but then again I could be wrong Edit: I realized I used the word "charged" wrongly, my bad. They have been charged, we just haven't seen a verdict for any of the charges yet. I meant that this is what surely is frustrating to a lot of fans. I also suspect that the entire trial being private behind closed doors increases cynicism around the case and rightfully so imo. Edited January 16 by osmark86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 3 minutes ago, osmark86 said: No exactly, those are the only ones I've heard of being addressed in court. Of the pending 115 for FFP charges I've heard nothing being charged, but then again I could be wrong They've been charged - that's what's happened. The difference is that Everton and Forest have accepted their 1 charge each and so the process moves on more quickly. They probably could've rejected the charges as well and had it drag on, but maybe there'd be a larger punishment looming then; who knows. I imagine there's a lot of legal arguments to be had over source of claims etc. in the Man City case - it will naturally drag on because (contrary to most people, apparently) I think the Premier League want to have a solid case here. They want to be able to give a large punishment to Man City without having anything deemed weak that can be attacked. Worth bearing in mind as well that the other "big 6" clubs had apparently been pushing hard for Man City to be severely punished. They didn't want titles stripped from memory, but relegations and transfer embargoes etc. It's a huge case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Yeah, I mean that's another aspect that seems to go missing here - the Man City case is both more complex and potentially weaker. Everton and Forest have just clearly breached their limits on accounting; they claim mitigations for that, but it's just a matter of reading their recent sets of accounts, it's not complex. Man City's case involves debates about fair value for various contracts and sponsorships, there's stuff around leaked emails and who knew what and when, etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osmark86 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 minute ago, bobzy said: They've been charged - that's what's happened. The difference is that Everton and Forest have accepted their 1 charge each and so the process moves on more quickly. They probably could've rejected the charges as well and had it drag on, but maybe there'd be a larger punishment looming then; who knows. I imagine there's a lot of legal arguments to be had over source of claims etc. in the Man City case - it will naturally drag on because (contrary to most people, apparently) I think the Premier League want to have a solid case here. They want to be able to give a large punishment to Man City without having anything deemed weak that can be attacked. Worth bearing in mind as well that the other "big 6" clubs had apparently been pushing hard for Man City to be severely punished. They didn't want titles stripped from memory, but relegations and transfer embargoes etc. It's a huge case. Yeah I realize that too, my original point was that some of the charges they could surely reach a verdict on faster such as the charges for not cooperating with the investigation. This club has, after all, been able to win the premier league 3 times since the formal investigation was started and helped further distort the transfer market during this time including buying our best player. This is quite obviously frustrating to football fans that's all. I understand the outrage even though I also understand that it takes time to build a complex case against them, especially when they are not cooperating with the investigation. The cynic in me just sees the incentives for Man City to continue to drag this out and not help out until the court ruling is scheduled for the summer of 2025. Personally I would like them to be punished for not cooperating at the very least until a case can be made. It shouldn't be beneficial to obscure and deflect. I realize that I'm no legal expert though and I don't have the full details of the investigation so I reserve for the fact that I'm probably in the wrong here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 14 minutes ago, osmark86 said: Yeah I realize that too, my original point was that some of the charges they could surely reach a verdict on faster such as the charges for not cooperating with the investigation. This club has, after all, been able to win the premier league 3 times since the formal investigation was started and helped further distort the transfer market during this time including buying our best player. This is quite obviously frustrating to football fans that's all. I understand the outrage even though I also understand that it takes time to build a complex case against them, especially when they are not cooperating with the investigation. The cynic in me just sees the incentives for Man City to continue to drag this out and not help out until the court ruling is scheduled for the summer of 2025. Personally I would like them to be punished for not cooperating at the very least until a case can be made. It shouldn't be beneficial to obscure and deflect. I realize that I'm no legal expert though and I don't have the full details of the investigation so I reserve for the fact that I'm probably in the wrong here. A transfer embargo until the co-operate? Would that be possible? OR even legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osmark86 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 17 minutes ago, duke313 said: A transfer embargo until the co-operate? Would that be possible? OR even legal? Would at least incentivize them to cooperate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 26 minutes ago, osmark86 said: Would at least incentivize them to cooperate. It's a great shout. If you're not going to comply with the investigation that would be a fair consequence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 One thing I dont understand, I may have missed it but why they are going to court immediately Premier League run the competition and should have a rule that this is dealt in house Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: It's a great shout. If you're not going to comply with the investigation that would be a fair consequence. But that would would most likely lose the Premer League Money and possibly commercial revenue. Another reason why they would never get demoted to the Championship. Richard masters today refusing to talk anything Man City was wrong. It's in the public domain, like telling us the date of the hearing would make no difference. These inquests are a awste of tax payers money, answers never get challenged. The only reason they have jumped on Everton and Forest is because they need to prove an independent regulator would be a waste of time, even though it's obviously needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 16 VT Supporter Share Posted January 16 Ok it’s a complex case but in the meantime they continue to benefit from their cheating to the tune of titles, trophies and revenue. How is that fair to anyone else? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said: Ok it’s a complex case but in the meantime they continue to benefit from their cheating to the tune of titles, trophies and revenue. How is that fair to anyone else? What would you have be done? Rush a trial and have it potentially all thrown out on a technicality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 2 hours ago, Keyblade said: What would you have be done? Rush a trial and have it potentially all thrown out on a technicality? That's what's gonna happpen on all but a few charges anyway. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 2 hours ago, Keyblade said: What would you have be done? Rush a trial and have it potentially all thrown out on a technicality? Suspend from all competitions pending outcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villa_Vids Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) 4 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: Ok it’s a complex case but in the meantime they continue to benefit from their cheating to the tune of titles, trophies and revenue. How is that fair to anyone else? I will preference this with - I don't like them at all. But I can't wrap my head round the idea that they have "cheated". It is not like their players have been found guilty of PEDs, it is just an abnormal level of investment into (what were) a mid table club and their owners have been clinical in all aspects of the football business. They took over when the ffp rules didn't exist , so they got a head start in growing their business essentially and authorities were very slow to react. I think it is envy that drives this cheating and financial doping stuff from other fans. They are not worth of that level of envy IMO. I think they sold a big chunk of their identity for it. How they have achieved their successes isn't for me, but I don't believe their merits on the field should be classed as cheating. It is too strong for me. FFP is also a relatively new idea, great in theory and messy in practice. I think it needs fine tuning. Edited January 16 by Villa_Vids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 hour ago, foreveryoung said: That's what's gonna happpen on all but a few charges anyway. You don't know that. More fan conspiracies as mentioned on Athletic podcast/usual suspect VT pessimism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 22 minutes ago, Villa_Vids said: I will preference this with - I don't like them at all. But I can't wrap my head round the idea that they have "cheated" Simply wrong. They've cheated, covered up the cheating, lied, inflated sponsorship deals et al. That's not even relating to FFP. There's plenty of coverage of this online I suggest you check it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villa_Vids Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 6 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: Simply wrong. They've cheated, covered up the cheating, lied, inflated sponsorship deals et al. That's not even relating to FFP. There's plenty of coverage of this online I suggest you check it out Can you point in the right direction and I'll be more than happy to educate myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 27 minutes ago, Villa_Vids said: Can you point in the right direction and I'll be more than happy to educate myself. Can't remember where I saw it sadly but there was literal emails saying "Shit! The Sheik has given us £65 million too much. Quick, invent a company and a bogus sponsorship deal so we can hide it" 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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