Hobsons Choice Posted January 15 VT Supporter Share Posted January 15 So when are we going to see Man City punished then? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 30 minutes ago, HKP90 said: So when are we going to see Man City punished then? 2025/26. It’s a complex case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobsons Choice Posted January 15 VT Supporter Share Posted January 15 10 minutes ago, bobzy said: 2025/26. It’s a complex case. As a layman in terms of legal mcgubbins is this more or less complex than Everton? Seems from the outside a trifle unfair that the punishment for Everton be effectively expedited because they didn't cheat in a complex enough way. I think regardless of whether it's due process, fair or otherwise, to see supposedly 'lower' clubs punished in the short term when Man (115 counts) City don't have any visible sanction, is going to p*** off the supporters of every other team in the pyramid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 9 minutes ago, HKP90 said: As a layman in terms of legal mcgubbins is this more or less complex than Everton? Seems from the outside a trifle unfair that the punishment for Everton be effectively expedited because they didn't cheat in a complex enough way. I think regardless of whether it's due process, fair or otherwise, to see supposedly 'lower' clubs punished in the short term when Man (115 counts) City don't have any visible sanction, is going to p*** off the supporters of every other team in the pyramid. 115 cases is pretty much always going to be more complex than 1, and that's before you get to Everton 'pleading guilty' (or 'fessing up' I suppose) compared to City denying all of the charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Do legal expenses contribute to FFP calculations? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobsons Choice Posted January 15 VT Supporter Share Posted January 15 1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said: 115 cases is pretty much always going to be more complex than 1, and that's before you get to Everton 'pleading guilty' (or 'fessing up' I suppose) compared to City denying all of the charges. Would it not have made sense, then, to defer the Everton punishment on this basis? As others have said, in the time until action is taken (assuming it will be) against City, at the time of the original judgement it could well have been that Everton ended up in the Championship for 3 years, whilst Man City get to win the treble for the next 3 years in a row. Now it looks like Everton will stay up, but the authorities would not have known that at the time. Again, I know nothing about the legal practice, and there may well be a good reason for all of this, but it's not a very good optic for the Premier League to allow the record books to be updated with wins for a team we all know cheated. That alone seems in my eyes to suggest a lesser or negligible punishment for City is more likely as the PL try to save face next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 37 minutes ago, HKP90 said: As a layman in terms of legal mcgubbins is this more or less complex than Everton? Seems from the outside a trifle unfair that the punishment for Everton be effectively expedited because they didn't cheat in a complex enough way. Just like basically any judicial process ever, isn’t it. ”Did you kill this person?” “Yes” “Sentencing will happen in 3 weeks, bye” ”Did you kill this person?” “No” “Trial will be in 5 months, expected to last 3 weeks, bye” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 22 minutes ago, HKP90 said: Would it not have made sense, then, to defer the Everton punishment on this basis? As others have said, in the time until action is taken (assuming it will be) against City, at the time of the original judgement it could well have been that Everton ended up in the Championship for 3 years, whilst Man City get to win the treble for the next 3 years in a row. Now it looks like Everton will stay up, but the authorities would not have known that at the time. Again, I know nothing about the legal practice, and there may well be a good reason for all of this, but it's not a very good optic for the Premier League to allow the record books to be updated with wins for a team we all know cheated. That alone seems in my eyes to suggest a lesser or negligible punishment for City is more likely as the PL try to save face next year. They couldn't defer Everton's punishment any longer, there's already a legal case from 3 or 4 other clubs who have been relegated in recent seasons protesting it not being decided fast enough. If they'd left it another season there'd be yet another 3 clubs taking legal action. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobsons Choice Posted January 15 VT Supporter Share Posted January 15 7 minutes ago, bobzy said: Just like basically any judicial process ever, isn’t it. ”Did you kill this person?” “Yes” “Sentencing will happen in 3 weeks, bye” ”Did you kill this person?” “No” “Trial will be in 5 months, expected to last 3 weeks, bye” It doesn't seem quite the same as this to me, more like both defendants were involved in the same ponzi scheme, but one covered their tracks better, and can hire better lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobsons Choice Posted January 15 VT Supporter Share Posted January 15 5 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: They couldn't defer Everton's punishment any longer, there's already a legal case from 3 or 4 other clubs who have been relegated in recent seasons protesting it not being decided fast enough. If they'd left it another season there'd be yet another 3 clubs taking legal action. That makes sense. Why aren't Man City subject to legal cases from, say liverpool or arsenal, though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 15 VT Supporter Share Posted January 15 1 minute ago, HKP90 said: That makes sense. Why aren't Man City subject to legal cases from, say liverpool or arsenal, though? Winning a trophy or not is much less tangible and quantifiable a loss than the cost of relegation, so the cost of the lawsuit wouldn't be worth it for Arsenal or Liverpool, but for clubs who were relegated, losing out to someone who definitely cheated, it's probably worth hiring the lawyers to try and claw back some of the losses. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villarule123 Posted January 15 VT Supporter Share Posted January 15 Everton and Forest charged. Surely this will render the Everton appeal useless as they will have two of the same charges for different seasons. They should be looking at a minimum 20 point deduction when it's all done. Just reading on the Athletic today that their potential new owners are facing another lawsuit too, so assume that takeover will fall through also. Could be administration for the club and puts the new stadium in jeopardy. Grim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Crickets on those 115 charges for Man City. Not surprised about Forest tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 8 minutes ago, The_Steve said: Crickets on those 115 charges for Man City. Not surprised about Forest tbh I'll bet nothing comes of Man City. Can't damage the premier league brand. I'll be amazed if they get punished properly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 15 Moderator Share Posted January 15 One of the issues with City is that they've already fought and won one FFP case against UEFA and dragged them through the courts in the process - they're awkward and they're lawyered up the wazoo. Any details yet on the specifics of the charges against Forest and Everton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinebro Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 This is crazy. Man City really are untouchable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayEm Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 I'm sure from a legal point of view there's good reason for the City case taking so long, but from every other angle it's a ridiculous situation. I just wonder if the uproar around this leads to anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 15 VT Supporter Share Posted January 15 (edited) The end of the season is going to be a nightmare. Everton are appealing the original case which could run until March. These new charges have to be heard by the beginning of April. They'll almost certainly appeal those... The final day this season isn't really going to be the final day. There's is going to be resolved in a court in the off season unless there's the worst relegation battle in history and it's all well resolved before May. Edited January 15 by Chindie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 15 Moderator Share Posted January 15 Forest are interesting - there have been some strange noises coming out of there in the last six months - this might not be the whole of their iceberg. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachboys1 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said: Forest are interesting - there have been some strange noises coming out of there in the last six months - this might not be the whole of their iceberg. wouldnt trust there owner one bit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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