Villa_Vids Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 6 minutes ago, VillaJ100 said: Can't remember where I saw it sadly but there was literal emails saying "Shit! The Sheik has given us £65 million too much. Quick, invent a company and a bogus sponsorship deal so we can hide it" Ha. I think I remember reading something vaguely like that too. I think City's alleged wrongdoing reflects badly on the governance of the Premier League, especially if City are found guilty. Could a lot of their charges be too historical to punish? Apparently Premier League are setting a legal trap for City with their punishment of Everton and Forest. Both of those clubs acted in "good faith and complied with the Premier League", whilst City may have not done in relation to similar charges. So a precedent has been set regarding good faith. Be interesting to see what happens next... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 City’s cheating enabled them to break the glass ceiling and become a champions league club but it was not enough on its own to win their titles and form a period of dominance. That only occurred because they brought in Barcelona’s back room staff and management team. Had they not done that Man City would still be scrapping around like Arsenal are today. Had a Chelsea/Man U/Arsenal brought in Begiristain as DOF, Guardiola as Manager etc it would be that club winning title after title instead and we would not care so much about City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted January 17 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted January 17 29 minutes ago, LondonLax said: That only occurred because they brought in Barcelona’s back room staff and management team. Had they not done that Man City would still be scrapping around like Arsenal are today. Yet they managed to get Guardiola and his staff because they were backed by an oil state owner, who it’s alleged just ignored the FFP rules and so was able to get a leap on the other teams you mention 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) I'm a little bit concerned after latest Master's fronting that the PL will be too incompetent to get the city charges over the line but it is an independent tribunal whatever that means. Edited January 17 by Kiwivillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 17 Moderator Share Posted January 17 5 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: I'm a little bit concerned after latest Master's fronting that the PL will be too incompetent to get the city charges over the line but it is an independent tribunal whatever that means. I’ve agreed with quite a lot of what you’ve posted recently (thanks) on this. My understanding is that “the premier league” is basically the 20 member clubs. To avoid partisan, in the moment, dealings they have a panel they’ve appointed to deal with P&S rule breach allegations. These folk don’t work for any clubs, they are appointed by the whole league. They look at the details and reach a conclusion. They then make recommendations back to the league. The club under sanction can appeal if they don’t accept the conclusion. Any appeal is heard by a different set of qualified experts, again, not working for or related to any club(s). The whole thing is designed to have qualified people assess the evidence against the documented rules and reach an unbiased verdict. The issue with City is their huge wealth and access to extremely expensive legal advocacy. This means every (if there are any) guilty verdict and punishment needs to be watertight. There’s no conspiracy, no whitewashing… The one concern I have is government intervention. Like the independent folk recommend X, but government puts pressure on the PL board to knock it down , because geopolitics needs to keep Abu Dhabi onside. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 51 minutes ago, blandy said: Yet they managed to get Guardiola and his staff because they were backed by an oil state owner, who it’s alleged just ignored the FFP rules and so was able to get a leap on the other teams you mention Agreed. It allowed them to shop in the same market as Chelsea or Man U for a backroom team which FFP would otherwise have denied them It was not just throwing endless illegitimate money at it that won them titles though, it was being far better managed off the pitch than their title rivals have been over the same period. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, blandy said: The one concern I have is government intervention. Like the independent folk recommend X, but government puts pressure on the PL board to knock it down , because geopolitics needs to keep Abu Dhabi onside. Legitimate concern. I'm unsure on it. There's clearly court of public opinion now and raised in the Master's hearing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 8 hours ago, Villa_Vids said: I think City's alleged wrongdoing reflects badly on the governance of the Premier League, especially if City are found guilty. Could a lot of their charges be too historical to punish? Apparently Premier League are setting a legal trap for City with their punishment of Everton and Forest. Both of those clubs acted in "good faith and complied with the Premier League", whilst City may have not done in relation to similar charges. So a precedent has been set regarding good faith. Be interesting to see what happens next... Apparently not. This was one of things that lead to Man City having a reduced charge from UEFA - their rules have something like a 5-year period of "relevance" and Man City argued that the charges related to periods over 5 years ago so can no longer be taken into account. The Premier League doesn't have such noted limitations. Theoretically, they can go as far back as they want to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, bobzy said: Apparently not. This was one of things that lead to Man City having a reduced charge from UEFA - their rules have something like a 5-year period of "relevance" and Man City argued that the charges related to periods over 5 years ago so can no longer be taken into account. The Premier League doesn't have such noted limitations. Theoretically, they can go as far back as they want to. This bodes well (in the sense of it being something that is bad for Man City), that rather than trying to defend it on the grounds of it actually being legitimate and clearing their name, they'd rather not have it looked at. They must surely have evidence of them breaching rules. The leaked emails show money coming from somewhere it wasn't supposed to be coming from. I'll be amazed if they don't get some form of punishment, but I'm not convinced it's going to equate to the book being thrown at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Buy Bruno off Newcastle and sell Dougie for the same price, loan them back and buy them back the year after. Easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 16 hours ago, VillaJ100 said: Suspend from all competitions pending outcome Isn't that a bit like being guilty until proved innocent? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 6 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: Isn't that a bit like being guilty until proved innocent? I'd imagine so, their lawyers would have a field day if they ended up beating the 115 charges, they would sue the PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post PieFacE Posted January 17 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted January 17 FFP seems to be getting a fair bit of hate at the minute seemingly due to Newcastle, Everton and Forest's situation. In the case of Newcastle I can see the arguments as to why they may feel frustrated but boo hoo. I actually think FFP is doing a pretty decent job of keeping things competitive as of late. Man City aside, things look pretty good in the Premier League I think. I think FFP allows teams without huge revenue streams to be smart and end up not too far away from the "elite" clubs in the top 4. Man City is a bit of a problem but we all know they've artificially got to where they are and hopefully that all gets sorted out (doubt I though). But there was a time when I was hugely against FFP but I think it's pretty decent really. The main thing I have against it is that it encourages selling homegrown talent. Which is a shame. But there's never going to be a perfect solution. It's a better scenario than Newcastle spending all the money in the world on players and inflating the market more. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted January 17 VT Supporter Share Posted January 17 3 hours ago, duke313 said: I'd imagine so, their lawyers would have a field day if they ended up beating the 115 charges, they would sue the PL. Will they get that bloke who did O.J. Simpsons defence? If so, we might as well forget it now as he will cite the Chewbacca defence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 56 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: Will they get that bloke who did O.J. Simpsons defence? If so, we might as well forget it now as he will cite the Chewbacca defence Yeah, an the PL will have the post Masters defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 2 hours ago, PieFacE said: FFP seems to be getting a fair bit of hate at the minute seemingly due to Newcastle, Everton and Forest's situation. In the case of Newcastle I can see the arguments as to why they may feel frustrated but boo hoo. I actually think FFP is doing a pretty decent job of keeping things competitive as of late. Man City aside, things look pretty good in the Premier League I think. I think FFP allows teams without huge revenue streams to be smart and end up not too far away from the "elite" clubs in the top 4. Man City is a bit of a problem but we all know they've artificially got to where they are and hopefully that all gets sorted out (doubt I though). But there was a time when I was hugely against FFP but I think it's pretty decent really. The main thing I have against it is that it encourages selling homegrown talent. Which is a shame. But there's never going to be a perfect solution. It's a better scenario than Newcastle spending all the money in the world on players and inflating the market more. Newcastle were the biggest spenders in the PL from it's inception to Roman taking over Chelsea. I find it very hard to have sympathy that they can't just continue to be the top spenders again. They had their chancer and **** it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 31 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: Newcastle were the biggest spenders in the PL from it's inception to Roman taking over Chelsea. I find it very hard to have sympathy that they can't just continue to be the top spenders again. They had their chancer and **** it. You'll probably find it was man U. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villa_Vids Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 3 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: You'll probably find it was man U. Nope. You are not allowed to say that about Man Utd or the London clubs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 8 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: You'll probably find it was man U. Didn't realise City spent as much as they did back then. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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