sidcow Posted July 10, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 10, 2023 2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: ...and the more worrying question is what happens if they can't sell it to existing Upper Holte Enders. The rumours are that it hasn't sold well at all to existing season ticket holders, but if we end up with 800 spaces in The Terrace View and a need to sell them, there's a big question of how we fit 800 new regular people into the existing spaces in the Upper Holte End, especially if they're paying a hundred quid a game and want to sit together in a group of four. I can them refunding all or a lions share of the membership fee and selling it for a few quid entry on a match by match basis. Which is what it should have been in the first place. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted July 10, 2023 Author Moderator Share Posted July 10, 2023 5,751 seats in the Upper Holte - I think it's fair to imagine that at least two thirds of those are season ticket holders (it's probably more). That leaves about 1,900 seats available on a match by match basis - if less than a hundred of the thousand places in the Holte Terrace have gone to existing Holte End Season ticket holders (as is rumoured), then 900 of those available seats are going to have to go to people who are in the Holte End because they are paying to use the lounge - not in the lounge because they are paying to sit in the Holte End. It's possible that some of those will be Upper Holte End season ticket holders on a single match basis (for dad's birthday or whatever), let's say another 100, but as a rough estimate, that means that 800 of the 1900 available matchday tickets in the Upper Holte will now go to hospitality guests and out of the hands of members that would usually snap them up. It feels wrong to me in a lot of ways and like something that could have been done a lot more simply, a lot more cheaply and a lot more effectively. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Whole thing leaves a bad taste in the mouth when we are paying hundreds more for the same shit standard of facilities and worse than other PL clubs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 21 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: Whole thing leaves a bad taste in the mouth when we are paying hundreds more for the same shit standard of facilities and worse than other PL clubs. Right and without increasing income how do you expect the club to afford to update the same shit facilities whilst spending on the team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 10, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 10, 2023 Has there been any confirmation that the remaining Upper Holte food and drink will be upgraded to the same level as Lower Holte? If so you should see a big improvement to service and reduction in queuing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 8 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said: Right and without increasing income how do you expect the club to afford to update the same shit facilities whilst spending on the team? They can afford to put some not broken toilets in Doug Ellis, some paint, and fix the **** taps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 1 minute ago, sidcow said: Has there been any confirmation that the remaining Upper Holte food and drink will be upgraded to the same level as Lower Holte? If so you should see a big improvement to service and reduction in queuing. I’d be very disappointed if they weren’t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 34 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: They can afford to put some not broken toilets in Doug Ellis, some paint, and fix the **** taps. I don't disagree if that's what you ate referring too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 41 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: They can afford to put some not broken toilets in Doug Ellis, some paint, and fix the **** taps. I remember going to first game after lock down in the Upper Holte and there were no locks on 2 out 3 toilets in one I was in. They’d had months to fix it but no, beyond the realms of possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, villaglint said: I remember going to first game after lock down in the Upper Holte and there were no locks on 2 out 3 toilets in one I was in. They’d had months to fix it but no, beyond the realms of possibility. Seems like a decent facilities manager would sort this. Especially at times with no customers inside! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said: Seems like a decent facilities manager would sort this. Especially at times with no customers inside! Seems they are harder to find that 20 goal strikers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) 49 minutes ago, villaglint said: I remember going to first game after lock down in the Upper Holte and there were no locks on 2 out 3 toilets in one I was in. They’d had months to fix it but no, beyond the realms of possibility. Remember when we had a thread on all the small quick fixes the club could go after, that could be collated and fed back via the fan consultation group? I don't doubt for a minute that they were fed back to the club. Did they ever fix a single one of them? There are basics like the state of the toilets, from locks, to scalding water and overflowing bins that have been a problem for about 4 owners now. Edited July 10, 2023 by Davkaus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 11 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Remember when we had a thread on all the small quick fixes the club could go after, that could be collated and fed back via the fan consultation group? I don't doubt for a minute that they were fed back to the club. Did they ever fix a single one of them? There are basics like the state of the toilets, from locks, to scalding water and overflowing bins that have been a problem for about 4 owners now. It's really not hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delboy54 Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 I am a ST holder in the upper Holte and they can stuff the stupid "terrace view" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaVilla Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 5 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: 5,751 seats in the Upper Holte - I think it's fair to imagine that at least two thirds of those are season ticket holders (it's probably more). That leaves about 1,900 seats available on a match by match basis - if less than a hundred of the thousand places in the Holte Terrace have gone to existing Holte End Season ticket holders (as is rumoured), then 900 of those available seats are going to have to go to people who are in the Holte End because they are paying to use the lounge - not in the lounge because they are paying to sit in the Holte End. It's possible that some of those will be Upper Holte End season ticket holders on a single match basis (for dad's birthday or whatever), let's say another 100, but as a rough estimate, that means that 800 of the 1900 available matchday tickets in the Upper Holte will now go to hospitality guests and out of the hands of members that would usually snap them up. It feels wrong to me in a lot of ways and like something that could have been done a lot more simply, a lot more cheaply and a lot more effectively. The tickets will be sold for the vast majority of the games. As you have previously said, the tickets will go to those who want a special occasion or to international fans who only come to one or two games per season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted July 11, 2023 Share Posted July 11, 2023 (edited) 16 hours ago, Davkaus said: It's on individual fans to do their own market research before replying to a survey? Why not ? Seems a reasonable thing to do beforehand considering it took me around 10mins so the price was not un-expected. People waste hours on their phones yet cannot be bothered to do their own little bit of research then deride the club and moan for not spoon feeding them all the info. I don’t agree with the price but then it’s market value based on other clubs we are and want to be competing against. Edited July 11, 2023 by thabucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Davkaus Posted July 11, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 11, 2023 26 minutes ago, thabucks said: Why not ? Seems a reasonable thing to do beforehand considering it took me around 10mins so the price was not un-expected. People waste hours on their phones yet cannot be bothered to do their own little bit of research then deride the club and moan for not spoon feeding them all the info. I don’t agree with the price but then it’s market value based on other clubs we are and want to be competing against. It took you 10 minutes? How many clubs did you look at? 5, 10? 19? How many of their facilities did you look at. How did you decide which ones were the relevant benchmark? Honestly, it's ludicrous notion, as @OutByEaster? explains, it wasn't even clear in the context of the survey what the real offering was intending to be, there was very little context. So what you're actually saying is that it's not the club's fault, they couldn't be expected to provide context ("spoon feeding", aka, ensuring that their market research was actually based on anything but guesswork), and the onus is on each individual fan to deduce what the club had in mind, then scour the internet looking for a representative sample of facilities from other clubs that match what you imagine the club had in mind when putting this survey together. It's the club's responsibility to ensure that there's real demand for facilities that they intend to build, and it's not the responsibility of the fanbase to do their own research to fill in the gaps for a poorly implemented survey. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted July 11, 2023 Share Posted July 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Davkaus said: It took you 10 minutes? How many clubs did you look at? 5, 10? 19? How many of their facilities did you look at. How did you decide which ones were the relevant benchmark? Honestly, it's ludicrous notion, as @OutByEaster? explains, it wasn't even clear in the context of the survey what the real offering was intending to be, there was very little context. So what you're actually saying is that it's not the club's fault, they couldn't be expected to provide context ("spoon feeding", aka, ensuring that their market research was actually based on anything but guesswork), and the onus is on each individual fan to deduce what the club had in mind, then scour the internet looking for a representative sample of facilities from other clubs that match what you imagine the club had in mind when putting this survey together. It's the club's responsibility to ensure that there's real demand for facilities that they intend to build, and it's not the responsibility of the fanbase to do their own research to fill in the gaps for a poorly implemented survey. Market research that doesn't let the respondee know enough about what they're responses mean is essentially a tick box exercise that is rigged to get the responses the company wants to hear. It doesn't give you a realistic view of what people actually feel. So then it's no surprise that when you deliver the product that was seemingly asked for, it doesn't sell. Purslow taking the blame for this one? It does feel like he worked wonders getting us to this level, but then his efforts to push us beyond it were a all a bit rubbish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted July 11, 2023 Share Posted July 11, 2023 50 minutes ago, MrBlack said: Market research that doesn't let the respondee know enough about what they're responses mean is essentially a tick box exercise that is rigged to get the responses the company wants to hear. It doesn't give you a realistic view of what people actually feel. So then it's no surprise that when you deliver the product that was seemingly asked for, it doesn't sell. Purslow taking the blame for this one? It does feel like he worked wonders getting us to this level, but then his efforts to push us beyond it were a all a bit rubbish. Purslow take the credit you mean? A cleverly worded survey disgusting pre existing plans to price people out , it was Turkeys voting for Christmas without knowing what Christmas was. Now the club can claim they've given us what we asked. No **** asked for this bullshit. We just wanted to be able to buy a **** burger in less than 30 minutes at half time for our near 1000£ a year ticket. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkymonkey666 Posted July 11, 2023 Share Posted July 11, 2023 19 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: The club asked if fans wanted better food, a more comfortable place to sit, better drinks service, somewhere to relax before and after games and improvements to the facilities in the Upper Holte. They didn't mention it being a ticketed area and costing more. Q. Do you want better stuff? A. Yes. Announcement - Better stuff available for £400 a season, just like you asked for!* *Worse stuff for those that don't want to pay the extra - but you did ask for better stuff so that's on you. It was referred to as GA+ on the survey, that to me suggests a premium over a standard ticket. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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