2023 Grand National

[blandy]

44 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

in charge of what? the BHA don't have any juristiction around whether the gambling companies choose to offer markets on their sport any more than the premier league can't stop people betting on football. and it's not like the gambling commission is going to ban horse betting betting.

if you  mean "if you were in charge" as in you were minister for sport, and you somehow managed to pursuade parliament to pass legislation preventing bookies offering horse racing markets, it still doesn't stop international sports books offering odds on the racing. and no self respecting minister is going to 'phase out' something that brings in huge amounts of tax £

so whilst it's technically possible to phase it out, it won't happen any more than any other sport that generates sizable income

The horsing tracks rely directly and indirectly on gambling keeping them viable. If the horsetracks aren’t there, or there are fewer of them, then the horsing can’t happen. The Horserace Betting Levy does a lot of lifting to keep horsing tracks financially afloat.

[bickster]

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

But it would be perfectly possible to phase it out.

For it to be banned, it would need to be law. I really can't see a law being drafted that phased it out. I really can't see a law being drafted that ever banned it either but that's a different matter.

They didn't ban fox hunting in Yorkshire one month and Dorset the next month and Staffordshire the following month etc. It'll either be banned or it won't and it would be a brave brave brave party that banned horse racing

[chrisp65]

3 minutes ago, bickster said:

For it to be banned, it would need to be law. I really can't see a law being drafted that phased it out. I really can't see a law being drafted that ever banned it either but that's a different matter.

They didn't ban fox hunting in Yorkshire one month and Dorset the next month and Staffordshire the following month etc. It'll either be banned or it won't and it would be a brave brave brave party that banned horse racing

I think the gambling industry is far too powerful for there to be a ban. I don’t see a ban happening in any sort of timeframe.

It’ll be chipped away at if anything.

Tweeks to welfare requirements, tweeks to tax regimes, tweeks to access to gambling.

Social norms change, and once advertisers think their product could actually be damaged by being associated with the relentless deaths of horses and protests at the Grand National then they’ll back away and it starts to be less commercial. As soon as its less commercial, it changes.

The same as I doubt driving a combustion engine private car will ever actually be banned. The speed you’re allowed to drive, the emissions tests, the cost of taxing it, the availability of fuel, closing of streets and town centres... It’ll be strangled down to an eccentric few. That’s how I see horse racing going, IF, that was to be the aim. A ban won’t happen. 

[blandy]

1 minute ago, chrisp65 said:

I think the gambling industry is far too powerful for there to be a ban. I don’t see a ban happening in any sort of timeframe.

That (quoted) is the only line I don't agree with from your post. I think it will go the way of dog-fighting, bear baiting, bull fighting and so on. I might be completely wrong, of course, but that's my hunch. It won't be anytime soon, but one day, after it's withered, like you say, from animal rights, vegetarianism, veganism, free range poultry, rejection of betting industry practices - all those kinds of sentiments and movements will become ever more mainstream over a couple of generations, and then hosting will be no more. Hurrah for the horses!!!

[tomav84]

12 minutes ago, blandy said:

That (quoted) is the only line I don't agree with from your post. I think it will go the way of dog-fighting, bear baiting, bull fighting and so on. I might be completely wrong, of course, but that's my hunch. It won't be anytime soon, but one day, after it's withered, like you say, from animal rights, vegetarianism, veganism, free range poultry, rejection of betting industry practices - all those kinds of sentiments and movements will become ever more mainstream over a couple of generations, and then hosting will be no more. Hurrah for the horses!!!

but dog fighting etc was never a multi million pound industry. when you say "one day", sure, maybe 100 years from now and by that time we might have made the planet too hot to have any competitive sport anyway

i'm 39, and i expect i'll be watching horse racing until the day i shuffle off

[chrisp65]

If it does get banned, what on earth do we do with all the jockeys?

Will they just be released to hang around town centres in gaudy nylon blouses like some weird new romantic diddy men?

[Designer1]

49 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

If it does get banned, what on earth do we do with all the jockeys?

Will they just be released to hang around town centres in gaudy nylon blouses like some weird new romantic diddy men?

Probably just as well Prince isn't around anymore...
 

 

[blandy]

 

[bickster]

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

If it does get banned, what on earth do we do with all the jockeys?

The Jam Butty mines?

[fightoffyour]

2 hours ago, bickster said:

For it to be banned, it would need to be law. I really can't see a law being drafted that phased it out. I really can't see a law being drafted that ever banned it either but that's a different matter.

They didn't ban fox hunting in Yorkshire one month and Dorset the next month and Staffordshire the following month etc. It'll either be banned or it won't and it would be a brave brave brave party that banned horse racing

But you could, theoretically, ban the breeding of horses for racing with immediate effect.

[DaveAV1]

18 hours ago, blandy said:

Is there? I’m not convinced. What’s the advances made around “horse has broken its leg, I know, let’s treat it by shooting a bolt through its brain”

A broken leg does often but not always end that way yes but there are many other conditions and diseases that horses and many other animals suffer from that benefit from advances in veterinary advances which have been huge over the last 60 years or more. 

[bobzy]

Is anyone actually interested in horse racing purely for horse racing?

i.e:  They don't bet at all, they just like to watch horses race.

[chrisp65]

35 minutes ago, bickster said:

The Jam Butty mines?

I **** put that in, some rambling shite about the jam butty mines being closed due to a Ken Dodd diabetes scandal.

Then I thought nobody would know what the hell I was on about.

[bickster]

7 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

I **** put that in, some rambling shite about the jam butty mines being closed due to a Ken Dodd diabetes scandal.

Then I thought nobody would know what the hell I was on about.

He'd have had Lester Piggott running the wage department for sure

[AvfcRigo82]

38 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Is anyone actually interested in horse racing purely for horse racing?

i.e:  They don't bet at all, they just like to watch horses race.

Yes.

Don't get me wrong, I will have a small wager here and there at the big meetings like Cheltenham & Aintree.

However, I've been to various race courses over the years, sometimes for work, social events etc. And honestly, I could stand there all day and watch without releasing a penny out of my pocket. Whether it's a Class 5 race at Huntingdon or a Class 1 event at Kempton.

I am not a big fan of the flat, but again, I've found myself tuning into races over the years just to watch the superstars like Dubai Millenium, Frankel etc.

My partner also owns 3 horses as she is heavily into show jumping herself. I've often travelled with her to some events - whether it be to help her out or just stand at the sides and watch. They're just fascinating animals to be around.

[blandy]

1 hour ago, DaveAV1 said:

A broken leg does often but not always end that way yes but there are many other conditions and diseases that horses and many other animals suffer from that benefit from advances in veterinary advances which have been huge over the last 60 years or more. 

Indeed, absolutely. That wasn't the point made, though, about veterinary science generally - someone (you?) posted that advances filtered down from racehorses to less well funded horses and other animals. I mean they may do, but I suspect that it's barely the case if at all, and like I said that shooting racehorses which break a leg isn't particularly a great treatment advance.

[VILLAMARV]

19 hours ago, fightoffyour said:

yeah there wouldn’t be all these horses roaming around.

I didn't say they could walk the earth like Caine from Kung-Fu

[Stevo985]

15 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Would you like horse racing banned?

I don’t really have a strong opinion either way 

[Stevo985]

15 hours ago, bickster said:

I've really got no skin in this game as quite frankly, I don't care but the argument isn't valid because surely Horse Racing would literally stop overnight. Do you really envisage them stopping this one racecourse at a time? It'll either be banned (it won't) or not, there will be no phased reduction in racing

On a completely different tack, what would be the chances of say some obscenely oil rich state with a love of horse racing just recreating Aintree in the desert for shits and giggles

I doubt horseracing would be banned worldwide overnight. 
 

Even if it did, those horses could still have a life afterwards. 
 

And even if they didn’t, there would be a strong argument that it would be for the greater good. 
If you couldn’t ensure the safety of the horses that currently exist for the sole purpose of horse racing but knew that the end result would be an end to horses being bred purely for racing then it would be a risk worth taking. 

[TDR V2]

Just now, Stevo985 said:

I doubt horseracing would be banned worldwide overnight. 
 

Even if it did, those horses could still have a life afterwards. 
 

And even if they didn’t, there would be a strong argument that it would be for the greater good. 
If you couldn’t ensure the safety of the horses that currently exist for the sole purpose of horse racing but knew that the end result would be an end to horses being bred purely for racing then it would be a risk worth taking. 

I think its horse racing in general, the whipping of a horse to make it go faster. I think its probably why I've never been interested in it or betting on it. 

Banning it would lose a lot of folks livelihoods but is racing necessary. Not summat for one person to answer