Jhon Durán

[villa4europe]

1 hour ago, fightoffyour said:

From my eye test and naturally biased point of view, I'd have to agree with this. Duran passes it back to Konsa inside our half and then the attacking phase of play leading to the goal starts.

The problem, as with many rules in football, is a lack of explicit laws. And as @villa4europe has been saying, the offside 'phase of play' - at least last season - seemed to be defined by the opposition side touching the ball. Now, this wasn't even strong enough really, as a clearing header is a touch of the ball but it's not gaining controlled possession.

So let's try with  "A new phase of play begins when the ball crosses the half-way line, possession changes from one team to the other involving a controlled touch of the ball (not a clearance or block), or a time period of 30 seconds elapses." I am aware that my second stipulation contains some of that subjective language that we're trying to avoid, but I'm writing this quickly.

liverpool 2nd goal, that's classed as two phases of play but duran's goal last night isn't, same with the Madrid winner here

absolute madness

[Mazrim]

56 minutes ago, lexicon said:

Haaland has zero joy to his game. He's the football equivalent of Ivan Drago - some laboratory produced specimen who clinically fulfills his tasks. Duran is certainly not that 

They're also incomparable anyway, agreed - Duran has about a hundred goals to score to be talked about in the same breath.

They're polar opposites in most ways. Haaland as you say, is a machine. He scores the same type of goal and plenty of them, and I'm sure Man City fans don't give a toss how they go in.
Duran is absolute box office: exciting, unpredictable, scores every type of goal - goals Haaland could never score. He has all the attributes needed: pace, power, skill, audacity...
The main difference between Haaland and Duran right now though is that Haaland has been starting games for several years. 

If you were making a striker a la Weird Science, it would be Jhon Duran. Its just that during the storm, a gremlin was mixed up in the process.
The point is - 1980s Kelly Le Brock is about as good as it gets.

[lexicon]

47 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

My issue with the Onana handball is that it didn’t, in any way, help him control the ball. It hit his hand but wasn’t it falling towards his body anyway? Ie: if it wasn’t for his hand it would have just gone down to his chest/ stomach area? 

Maybe I’m misremembering. But if it was, then it’s similar to when the ball hits a players hand when their hand is up against their body, and hitting it has given them no advantage.

It was clearly a handball and the referee should have just given it at the time. 

Pulling things back when there had seemingly been more phases to the play was ridiculous. 

[Beastmix]

Talking of Haaland, every time I see Durán, it makes me think we're now operating on a sustainability model similar to Dortmund's - buy low, sell high, reinvest by strengthening the current team AND by bringing in the next crop of stars to build/sell, repeat.

I wouldn't get too attached to Jhon, but enjoy the ride while it lasts.

Edited yesterday at 09:17 by Beastmix

[Mazrim]

Here's the rules in black and white:

1259.2a - VAR and phases of play:

A goal is scored when the ball crosses the line completely as covered in 24.7c "scoring - definitions and criteria".
After awarding the goal, and seeing no issues on the pitch, the virtual assistant refereeing team will find an excuse to disallow the goal. This is covered in section 422.f "Goal? We'll see about that pal".

The review should take no longer than 90 minutes and can cover a period of time no longer than the birth of the goalscorers parents.
To help speed things up, the reviewing team need only concentrate on the following criteria:

• Player on scoring team has handled the ball in the last hour. If in doubt, rule it out. It probably did hit his hand. Anyway, I'm reading Razzle, leave me alone.
• Player on scoring team has a testicle offside. If level, or in doubt, rule it out. Any abnormal testicles should be referred to a medical professional.
• Player on scoring teams parents have any previous driving convictions or CCJs.
• Reviewers have received a nice box of chocs / champers / cash from defending team.
• Player's grandparents have shared memes about transgender or ethnic minorities.

Please note: this list is not exhaustive and can include any criteria you wish. Be creative. The spirit of the game here is to defecate on everything we love and to urinate on chips.

Association Football - Rules and regulations 2024 v2.44

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So there you have it.

[Andy_10]

13 hours ago, bobzy said:

From memory, Onana controls it (with his hand), passes out wide to Digne(?) who finds Duran to score.

Irrespective of time - within reason - it’s had a direct impact on the goal being scored.

Right decision to disallow it IMO; just a shame given the quality of the strike. 

It was 15 seconds between the handball & goal. How long do advantages last?

Personally, I thought it was the right decision & I would have been furious if that had been allowed against us.

The Watkins one however was nowhere near the standard for a "clear & obvious error".

It was impossible to tell whether it hit his hand & we were told at the beginning of the season that the on-field decision took priority over decisions that were not "clear & obvious".

I would have no issue if that goal was given against us.

[Avfc96]

3 minutes ago, Andy_10 said:

It was 15 seconds between the handball & goal. How long do advantages last?

Personally, I thought it was the right decision & I would have been furious if that had been allowed against us.

The Watkins one however was nowhere near the standard for a "clear & obvious error".

It was impossible to tell whether it hit his hand & we were told at the beginning of the season that the on-field decision took priority over decisions that were not "clear & obvious".

I would have no issue if that goal was given against us.

I believe that the on-field decision takes priority is a Premier League thing not a Uefa thing.

 

[thunderball]

6 minutes ago, Mazrim said:

Player on scoring team has handled the ball in the last hour. If in doubt, rule it out. It probably did hit his hand. Anyway, I'm reading Razzle, leave me alone.

 

Kids on here wont know what you're talking about....

[Andy_10]

24 minutes ago, Avfc96 said:

I believe that the on-field decision takes priority is a Premier League thing not a Uefa thing.

 

Wasn't it an IFAB rule? 

They change the rules so often that it's impossible to keep up to date with it all.

[MaVilla]

obviously i would love him to develop in to a top player at Villa, and show his worth here, however, i wouldnt be surprised at all if he is our big FFP sale this year, or at least one of the key FFP sales.

West Ham were stupid not to stump up the 40m we wanted in the summer, becuase if he continues to develop how he is, he will be worth more than that in Jan or next summer.

Edited yesterday at 10:20 by MaVilla

[VILLAMARV]

Greatest disallowed goal I've watched I reckon.

Great start to the season. Never didn't love you crazy Jhon

[Enda]

3 hours ago, turvontour said:

So it's not a time thing. It's the other team touching the ball thing? We could have had the ball for 5 mins and then Duran scored, but it would still have gone back to a free kick to them in our half?

No, that’s possession. I think the phrase is ambiguous intentionally. A “I know it when I see it” sort of thing. Twenty seconds of possession and five passes you could well argue counts. Or you could say the pass to Konsa reset it. Either are reasonable.

Which I think means we can’t be too upset at the officials, their view wasn’t unreasonable.

[thunderball]

Just rewatched the disallowed goal and its s shocking decision: Onana accidentally handballs, its of no consequence as it doesnt alter the trajectory of the ball, deny YB possession as there was no-one within  at least 6 yards of him. Two additional passes are made and the ball returns to Onana who passes onwards again. In total there is 7 considered passes after the ‘offence’ including a return to Onana, and 19 seconds. The ball travel ¾ of the pitch from our half into theirs, it even goes back further into our half before pushed forward into the attack, its not like a hoofed down field! 
also the ref was only shown the handball close up not the context or the event in the (early) sequence of the goal.

Shocking, youd think after the balls up with Watkins handball they would cut some slack.

[KentVillan]

Yeah my frustration is that VAR very obviously does *not* get involved in things like “was there a foul throw by the full back to the keeper at the start of the move?”

Or an even more obvious example that happens all the time: ref awards a free kick near the box. It’s a dive / no foul. Team scores direct from the set piece. VAR doesn’t check the foul. That’s actually v unfair and *should* be checked by VAR imo, but we accept that there’s a point where you don’t re litigate these things.

17 seconds of open play is longer than it sounds on a football pitch, I personally don’t think Onana’s handball was deliberate nor particularly relevant to the goal being scored, and should have just been ignored by VAR as a minor on-field error by the referee.

If Onana had brought the ball down and then immediately launched an attack with a ball over the top, different story of course.

Edited yesterday at 12:20 by KentVillan

[Made In Aston]

3 hours ago, Mazrim said:

Player on scoring team has handled the ball in the last hour. If in doubt, rule it out. It probably did hit his hand. Anyway, I'm reading Razzle, leave me alone.

I might have a few vintage copies in the loft if you are interested. In very used condition with few pages stuck together but, apart from that, they still do the job. 

[rjw63]

3 hours ago, thunderball said:

Kids on here wont know what you're talking about....

Club International was always the connoissuer's smut Razzle was shite

 

[Mazrim]

14 minutes ago, Made In Aston said:

I might have a few vintage copies in the loft if you are interested. In very used condition with few pages stuck together but, apart from that, they still do the job. 

I'm not a VAR official.

[The Moustache of Teale]

5 hours ago, thunderball said:

Kids on here wont know what you're talking about....

Whereas the older members on here will be pondering whether they preferred the regular Razzle, or Razzle Readers’ Wives.

[479Villan]

 

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/862908c9-dde4-4ce5-8900-fa896b90c991#S6H_IbyW.copy

[TDR V2]

Let him loose against Wycombe, they won't know what to do with him