Jhon Durán

[blunther]

Anyone know how long Duran has left on his contract? Seems like he might be a difficult one to tie down longer so I wonder if he's someone we maximise value on by selling with two years left.

Personally I'd be chucking a megabucks five year thing in front of him now.

[TheMelvillan]

Still think the yellow card was bullshit. Those "ultras" can't be that tough if their feelings get hurt by a dude celebrating a goal ffs

[Vive_La_Villa]

I get the goal being disallowed I just don't get when the phase of play is classed as ending. I was almost willing the players to pass it around a bit more as knew if we scored straight away it would be disallowed.  But how long would they have to pass it around for? Would it need to go out of play?

edit: sorry just seen this has already been discussed on the previous page and there's no answer.

Cracking finish by Duran. Real shame it didn't count.

Edited yesterday at 07:04 by Vive_La_Villa

[Hank Scorpio]

4 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I get the goal being disallowed I just don't get when the phase of play is classed as ending. I was almost willing the players to pass it around a bit more as knew if we scored straight away it would be disallowed.  But how long would they have to pass it around for? Would it need to go out of play?

edit: sorry just seen this has already been discussed on the previous page and there's no answer.

Cracking finish by Duran. Real shame it didn't count.

It's just bullshit. If the ref didn't blow for handball immediately as he didn't he **** up and away play should go.

[alreadyexists]

1 minute ago, Hank Scorpio said:

It's just bullshit. If the ref didn't blow for handball immediately as he didn't he **** up and away play should go.

It’s also weird how he was shown the handball on the screen, when even the most blinkered viewer would have to say it was a handball… it was the phases of play and build up he should’ve been shown. It’s not like JD handballed it to control it, or even the assist was handball, it was 4-5 passes away.

[Vive_La_Villa]

What I want to know is why was he told to go to the screen for the blatant one but not the one that didn't even look like handball. Dodgy as ****!

Back on topic, I think Durán coming on is working and if Ollie is fit they should carry on playing at they are for now. 

[Davkaus]

10 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

What I want to know is why was he told to go to the screen for the blatant one but not the one that didn't even look like handball. Dodgy as ****!

 

My understanding of this is that for the first offence, it's a 'matter of fact', if VAR sees the touch, that's all that matters, even if it's accidental - there's no consideration of intent.

The second offence is subjective (intent, natural position, all that guff), so they showed it to the ref so he could agree if it was a handball. I kind of agree with @alreadyexists they should have been shown the full passage of play, however, the rule is if there is an offence in 'the build up to or scoring of the goal', and as the other team didn't get a touch in between that offence and the goal, I think it was the right decision.

Edited yesterday at 07:19 by Davkaus

[alreadyexists]

1 minute ago, Davkaus said:

My understanding of this is that for the first offence, it's a 'matter of fact', if VAR sees the touch, that's all that matters, even if it's accidental - there's no consideration of intent.

The second offence has the element of intent around it, so they showed it to the ref so he could agree if it was a handball. I kind of agree with @alreadyexists they should have been shown the full passage of play, however, the rule is if there is an offence in 'the build up to or scoring of the goal', and as the other team didn't get a touch in between that offence and the goal, I think it was the right decision.

I suppose it’s ’the Build up’ that’s the subjective part… is that 30 seconds, or 3 passes, or when the ball swaps halves? Its too woolly.

[Stevo985]

44 minutes ago, turvontour said:

But what does 17 seconds mean. What if it was 22 seconds or 27 seconds, are the seconds irrelevant?

Sorry, I just don't know the specific rule.

There isn’t one. Which is the problem. 
 

My point is whatever the rule is, that goal last night shouldn’t count. It’s very obviously the right decision 

[mjmooney]

Thinking about the revival of the Gary Shaw chant last night, it seemed very timely. If ever there's a current player those words apply to, it's Durán. 

He gets the ball, he's bound to score. 

[Jareth]

He might be pricing himself out of a move anytime soon. £40 mill can just about be swallowed by the likes of West Ham, but it's a lot more now and he still represents a risk at that price given he hasn't started regularly. Not sure who can/will take that risk at that price. 

[rjw63]

Still annoyed we had two goals disallowed so Duran (and Watkins) must be fuming.

Their first Chumps League goals chalked off.

[mjmooney]

Having said all that, the comparisons with Haaland are WAY premature. Haaland is an ice-cold robot. Durán, for all his natural talent is the very opposite. We're all hoping he's grown up a bit recently, but he's still got 'loose cannon' written all over him. I wouldn't be surprised to see more shenanigans before he's done. 

[lexicon]

2 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Having said all that, the comparisons with Haaland are WAY premature. Haaland is an ice-cold robot. Durán, for all his natural talent is the very opposite. We're all hoping he's grown up a bit recently, but he's still got 'loose cannon' written all over him. I wouldn't be surprised to see more shenanigans before he's done. 

Haaland has zero joy to his game. He's the football equivalent of Ivan Drago - some laboratory produced specimen who clinically fulfills his tasks. Duran is certainly not that 

They're also incomparable anyway, agreed - Duran has about a hundred goals to score to be talked about in the same breath.

[fightoffyour]

8 hours ago, KentVillan said:

For me, when the ball is knocked back to Konsa and he stops the ball dead, then plays it inside - that’s the start of a phase of play. That’s where the attacking move starts. A phase of play isn’t synonymous with a possession IMO. Otherwise you’d have 35-pass moves getting pulled back by VAR bc of a handball back to the keeper. Surely that isn’t the intention? 

From my eye test and naturally biased point of view, I'd have to agree with this. Duran passes it back to Konsa inside our half and then the attacking phase of play leading to the goal starts.

The problem, as with many rules in football, is a lack of explicit laws. And as @villa4europe has been saying, the offside 'phase of play' - at least last season - seemed to be defined by the opposition side touching the ball. Now, this wasn't even strong enough really, as a clearing header is a touch of the ball but it's not gaining controlled possession.

So let's try with  "A new phase of play begins when the ball crosses the half-way line, possession changes from one team to the other involving a controlled touch of the ball (not a clearance or block), or a time period of 30 seconds elapses." I am aware that my second stipulation contains some of that subjective language that we're trying to avoid, but I'm writing this quickly.

[MaVilla]

1 hour ago, blunther said:

Anyone know how long Duran has left on his contract? Seems like he might be a difficult one to tie down longer so I wonder if he's someone we maximise value on by selling with two years left.

Personally I'd be chucking a megabucks five year thing in front of him now.

if reports are correct, signed jan 2023, contract until Jun 2028 (5 and a half year contract)

So 4 years left.

[lexicon]

Just now, MaVilla said:

if reports are correct, signed jan 2023, contract until Jun 2028 (5 and a half year contract)

So 4 years left.

 

 

[Rob182]

My issue with the Onana handball is that it didn’t, in any way, help him control the ball. It hit his hand but wasn’t it falling towards his body anyway? Ie: if it wasn’t for his hand it would have just gone down to his chest/ stomach area? 

Maybe I’m misremembering. But if it was, then it’s similar to when the ball hits a players hand when their hand is up against their body, and hitting it has given them no advantage.

[Tom13]

A genuine natural finisher, and can use unbelievable power when he needs to. Frightening potential.

[ThunderPower_14]

The Onana handball is another example in the VAR era of rules being written poorly and then the interpretation has to be poor. They've tried to completely codify a game where common sense used to be allowed to some degree and you get situations like this where the rules interpreted as written completely go against common sense and the spirit of the rules.

See also: That goal we conceded a couple of seasons ago where Rodri tackled Mings from an offside position but the written definition of phases of play meant he wasn't offside anymore, apparently.

I feel bad for Jhon because he deserved that Champions League goal. It's a massive milestone for a player that has been taken away from him by red tape. Watkins as well.

 

Edited yesterday at 08:41 by ThunderPower_14