João Félix

[Czarnikjak]

1 hour ago, Jas10 said:

 

I’m surprised there is still the level of doubt and negativity around the player when we know there is interest there and our world class manager likes and wants the player - if a deal can be done.

Simeone is also a world class manager. He obviously also wanted him (just like Emery does now), otherwise he wouldn't have signed him in the first place. Yet things have gone bad very quickly.

You can argue that Simeone is an issue, but even during his loans he didn't show enough to justify his value and I don't see a queue of top clubs wanting to sign him permanently.

[PieFacE]

17 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Same for me. No interest in a permanent deal at moment

Weirdly I feel the complete opposite. I think to get the best out of Felix, we need him on a permanent where he can get a fresh start and a new place to call home.  Though, it would be a gamble, just as any big money signing is a gamble. 

(that said, I don't think we'll sign him)

Edited July 24 by PieFacE

[Zatman]

10 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

Really? Heck is regularly criticised. People are unhappy about much of what is going on away from the pitch.

Don’t think Unai deserves any doubt or criticism though, after all he has done. Revived and revitalised us, turned us into something special and repaired all of the damage that the Scouse clown did. Bloody got us CL football, something we could only ever dream about before…

its going off topic but it seems on club matters that some people think the club is always right and maybe we are ungrateful if we have an opinion on it. 

Of course not Unai, he is a God  

[Jas10]

Just now, Czarnikjak said:

Simeone is also a world class manager. He obviously also wanted him (just like Emery does now), otherwise he wouldn't have signed him in the first place. Yet things have gone bad very quickly.

You can argue that Simeone is an issue, but even during his loans he didn't show enough to justify his value and I don't see a queue of top clubs wanting to sign him permanently.

Fair enough, maybe it just wasn’t the right fit and it’s not always easy to call or predict these things.

We don’t know, from a distance it appeared that Atletico wanted to make a statement and beat the competition to the punch (it’s not all that unusual for European clubs/giants to sign players “over the manager’s head” if that makes sense, led by transfer/recruitment staff instead. See Barca, see Chelsea). A move to show that they’re back in the big time and could get that kind of player. 
 

Never heard anything negative about him from his time at either Chelsea or Barcelona (who would’ve liked to keep him, as well as the new manager).

[Jas10]

1 minute ago, Zatman said:

its going off topic but it seems on club matters that some people think the club is always right and maybe we are ungrateful if we have an opinion on it. 

Of course not Unai, he is a God  

We should always raise concerns and criticise accordingly, especially when we are affected and hit in the pocket… it’s becoming extortionate now… fans must be valued and respected, as Unai said - we are the heart of the club!

But there is not one single valid complaint or concern we can raise over Unai or football matters. So I don’t think it’s too much to ask to show faith and belief in him. If he wants Felix… shouldn’t we too?

Club has to be held to account  when it does stuff wrong though. 

 

[villa89]

11 minutes ago, Pongo Waring said:

"Jhon Duran’s future is key to Aston Villa’s pursuit of Joao Felix Villa are expected to firm up their interest in Joao Felix should they sell Jhon Duran to West Ham."

FWIW I don't think the two are related at all. We are selling Duran because he wants out, the transfers aren't dependent on each other. 

[DakotaVilla]

I think Emery has literally been sat there salivating at how he would utilize Felix. 

It’s obvious now how we only buy players where we are supremely confident that they are going to perform an extremely specific role in the Team and are able to play the way Unai wants. 

He has been trying to sign this guy from the 1st window he arrived so clearly sees a profile that he thinks he can do wonders with. That’s more than enough to get me extremely excited about this signing. 

[The_Steve]

17 minutes ago, Pongo Waring said:

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/aston-villa/2024/07/24/jhon-durans-future-is-key-to-aston-villas-pursuit-of-joao-felix/

"Jhon Duran’s future is key to Aston Villa’s pursuit of Joao Felix Villa are expected to firm up their interest in Joao Felix should they sell Jhon Duran to West Ham."

I don’t think that’s true at all. We were always selling him regardless. 

[PaulMcGrath_5]

I think it means Duran leaving from a financial perspective. 

[CVByrne]

2 hours ago, villa89 said:

IF we are interested it was always going to be messy. Athletico will over value him and his wages are also too high for his ability level. Athletico are going to have to take a huge loss on him if they are to get rid, they are probably hoping they can ship him off to Saudi or PSG. A Loan with an option to buy is the best deal for us. 

He has a remaining book value of €50m at Atletico. So if they recouped that they would be break even in their accounts. They want to move him on this window on a permanent deal. His wages are a sticking point for most clubs. He's on wages that are disproportionate to his current market value. £200k a week or something I think from this summer as part of his contract extension in Jan 2023. 

We would want him to cut that. However he might not want the pay cut. Though he did to go to Barcelona last season. I think we can win on the fee with Atletico and hopefully we can agree on wages with Felix.

It may come down to a Loan with obligation to buy. Where we pay a loan fee and he keeps his current wages for one more season before the reduction when joining us. 

It's not an easy deal to complete 

[CVByrne]

5 minutes ago, PaulMcGrath_5 said:

I think it means Duran leaving from a financial perspective. 

And position perspective. If we sign Felix I don't think we sign another centre forward given Felix has played there plenty as a 9. 

[CarryOnVilla]

7 minutes ago, PaulMcGrath_5 said:

I think it means Duran leaving from a financial perspective. 

 

I’ll go with that 

[Jas10]

9 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

He has a remaining book value of €50m at Atletico. So if they recouped that they would be break even in their accounts. They want to move him on this window on a permanent deal. His wages are a sticking point for most clubs. He's on wages that are disproportionate to his current market value. £200k a week or something I think from this summer as part of his contract extension in Jan 2023. 

We would want him to cut that. However he might not want the pay cut. Though he did to go to Barcelona last season. I think we can win on the fee with Atletico and hopefully we can agree on wages with Felix.

It may come down to a Loan with obligation to buy. Where we pay a loan fee and he keeps his current wages for one more season before the reduction when joining us. 

It's not an easy deal to complete 

Could be less than 200k but I can’t say what he and his agents demands will be.

According to all of the reports I’ve seen, including Spanish media/papers/sites - he was originally on anywhere between 200-225k pw (euros I think) with Atletico but his deal was extended to 2029 with a 50% reduction on wages before (and separate to) the loan to Barcelona. Could be something like 125k.

He started on 6k pw out there, that was bumped up to 66k pw due to league rules. Wanted to do everything to make his “dream move” possible… got to play for Barca for a season.

Returns now on that 50% reduced Atletico deal that runs until 2029. They have kept extending his contract to try and protect some of his value and try to, eventually, make a decent sale.

Edited July 24 by Jas10

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, CarryOnVilla said:

 

I’ll go with that 

Monchi has put on weight 

[Frodo]

Only my thoughts ...... think although Emery really like Felix the numbers wouldn't be able to work even though the idea was to try & sell Duran. But When the Diaby situation came about & the numbers involved that deal all of a sudden it might be able to work regards Felix, so as Diaby has gone the deal does rely on Duran leaving also only because Diaby deal was done 1st & Dura  2nd but do think it maybe able to work because the fees involved in both deals.

[Jas10]

Again, I’m wondering if we could pay a chunk of the final fee as a loan fee now (and they may pay a share of his wage this season), then pay the rest the following season. He might want high wages (but we might be able to squeeze them into our structure and budget and appease him and his agent with performance related bonuses. I don’t approve of breaking or stretching that too much personally).

I think the clincher could be a meeting with Unai and convincing him of how he fits in, our vision/project and maybe convince him of a more permanent solution and home. To get his career back on track and find some stability and continuity… this may have already happened and it’s just about the structure of the deal now. We probably wouldn’t have entered into negotiations without an interest from their side…

With time running out (neither party wants to reunite) the pressure is on them if they want to get a deal done and they should be willing to compromise. Otherwise, what other options do they have? Can they keep kicking that can down the road?

Benfica is the other possibility.

Edited July 24 by Jas10

[Pongo Waring]

2 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

Again, I’m wondering if we could pay a chunk of the final fee as a loan fee now (and they may pay a share of his wage this season), then pay the rest the following season. He might want high wages (but we might be able to squeeze them into our structure and budget and appease him and his agent with performance related bonuses. I don’t approve of breaking or stretching that too much personally).

I think the clincher could be a meeting with Unai and convincing him of how he fits in, our vision/project and maybe convince him of a more permanent solution and home. To get his career back on track and find some stability and continuity… this may have already happened and it’s just about the structure of the deal now. We probably wouldn’t have entered into negotiations without an interest from their side…

With time running out (neither party wants to reunite) the pressure is on them if they want to get a deal done and they should be willing to compromise. Otherwise, what other options do they have? Can they keep kicking that can down the road?

Benfica is the other possibility.

Do Benfica normally pay out big wages to sign someone like Felix?

[Rolta]

38 minutes ago, Czarnikjak said:

Simeone is also a world class manager. He obviously also wanted him (just like Emery does now), otherwise he wouldn't have signed him in the first place. Yet things have gone bad very quickly.

You can argue that Simeone is an issue, but even during his loans he didn't show enough to justify his value and I don't see a queue of top clubs wanting to sign him permanently.

SImeone bought a flair attacker and then put him in a lineup designed for the most all out defensive turgid football on the planet. Simeone might have got Atletico to a level, but he's also arguably held them back in some ways too. 

I'm not sure Felix was his idea. I wasn't paying attention, but I believe I heard otherwise. 

[CVByrne]

9 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

Could be less than 200k but I can’t say what he and his agents demands will be.

According to all of the reports I’ve seen, including Spanish media/papers/sites - he was originally on anywhere between 200-225k pw (euros I think) with Atletico but his deal was extended to 2029 with a 50% reduction on wages before (and separate to) the loan to Barcelona. Could be something like 125k.

He started on 6k pw out there, that was bumped up to 66k pw due to league rules. Wanted to do everything to make his “dream move” possible… got to play for Barca for a season.

Returns now on that 50% reduced Atletico deal that runs until 2029. They have kept extending his contract to try and protect some of his value and try to, eventually, make a decent sale.

I think his salary was in the 300-400 range before his contract extension. I think what they did was agreed a 50% pay cut from 2024 in exchange for 2 extra years in his contract so the total value he was due didn't change.

This would help him find a move or a loan whilst keeping his insurance of his contract incase of a terrible injury or something similar. 

So I think his salary now is around the 200k mark which is why Atletico are focused on a sale as they feel they can get a fee above his remaining book value and a club can get close to meeting his wage demands. 

[villabromsgrove]

In 2019 when Felix became one of the world's most expensive players and also became one of football's highest earners, the seeds of his future career downfall were sown. He had to justify that enormous financial investment or suffer the consequences of being unsellable if he failed to live up to the hype.

Due to either wrong advice from his agent and advisors or being blinded by money and joining the wrong club, he was eventually left floundering in a team that had evolved to play defensive negative football, set up for grinding out 1-0 wins. By the time he fell out with the dour and obstinate Diego Simeone, there was literally nowhere to go because no other club were willing (or able?) to pay the outrageous sums necessary to allow Atletico to sell him. His coach didn't like him and the president of his club questioned his attitude and motivation. It wasn't all Felix's fault, it was a combination of a 19 year old having an enormous financial weight hung around his neck, and a young man's inability to adjust to demands of a coach and a team that demanded physicality and work rate ahead of finesse and fluidity.

Where does he go from here? In my opinion he is at a clear crossroads in his career. He has to accept that his stratospheric wages are crippling his future prospects and be prepared to take a big pay cut to join a club that plays his style of football in order to fit into that club's existing pay structure, or he can accept obscurity as a perpetual loan player while seeing out his current contract with Atletico which expires in the summer of 2029!

If his motivation is still money then future loans or Saudi football might be his only realistic outlets, but for a young man who clearly enjoys a cosmopolitan lifestyle and can play top quality football when fully motivated, that would be a shame.

If Villa were to buy him it should only happen on the basis that both his transfer fee and wages were reasonable enough to allow us to sell him on if he became disenchanted with PL football (and Birmingham) in a couple of years time. He's still only 24, so with the right financial structure he would become more of an asset than a fiscal liability.