World Cup: Matches

[Kiwivillan]

As an aside I've barely watched any games this WC because middle of night or work in the morning and this game Foden was non existent. Like hard to believe he was on the pitch. Heard Bellingham was amazing in some games but didn't shine for me. Saka was a constant threat and was absolutely shocked he got subbed off so Southgate deserves grief for the latter

Edited December 11, 2022 by Kiwivillan

[Stevo985]

4 minutes ago, bobzy said:

But you’ve ignored the context!

1.52 of England’s xG - “reflecting they were the better side” - comes from rash French decision making rather than anything England did. An over hit ball from Bellingham didn’t show England doing anything - but adds 0.76 xG.

I guess we’ll just disagree as to how useful it is  

Some of France’s xG was us giving the ball straight to them. It’s swings and roundabouts. These things happen in a game. Mistakes happen because teams pressure their opponents into them. 
 

We won a penalty. That counts. Why are you excluding that?

We can all pick stats apart if we just decide that parts of them don’t count. We didn’t get the Kane penalty in the first half so you could argue we were due the same there.

Im not using it without context. I watched the game ffs

You can’t pick apart England’s xG and then just ignore France’s. 

[bobzy]

6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Some of France’s xG was us giving the ball straight to them. It’s swings and roundabouts. These things happen in a game. Mistakes happen because teams pressure their opponents into them. 
 

We won a penalty. That counts. Why are you excluding that?

We can all pick stats apart if we just decide that parts of them don’t count. We didn’t get the Kane penalty in the first half so you could argue we were due the same there.

Im not using it without context. I watched the game ffs

You can’t pick apart England’s xG and then just ignore France’s. 

And France didn't get a penalty when Shaw had two hands in Giroud's back.  Them's the breaks.

Penalties do count.  They over exaggerate xG when being used as a "harsh loss" measure.  Because it wasn't a harsh loss, really.  England possibly edged the game but didn't create much at all.  xG says we created pretty well!  But we didn't.  Context.

I'm not ignoring France's FWIW - it just doesn't seem overinflated or underinflated.  It was a very even game.

[Stevo985]

8 minutes ago, bobzy said:

And France didn't get a penalty when Shaw had two hands in Giroud's back.  Them's the breaks.

Penalties do count.  They over exaggerate xG when being used as a "harsh loss" measure.  Because it wasn't a harsh loss, really.  England possibly edged the game but didn't create much at all.  xG says we created pretty well!  But we didn't.  Context.

I'm not ignoring France's FWIW - it just doesn't seem overinflated or underinflated.  It was a very even game.

I don’t understand your point anymore. Your argument seems to be don’t use xG without context. I haven’t. 
 

That’s it 

[Zatman]

47 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

As an aside I've barely watched any games this WC because middle of night or work in the morning and this game Foden was non existent. Like hard to believe he was on the pitch. Heard Bellingham was amazing in some games but didn't shine for me. Saka was a constant threat and was absolutely shocked he got subbed off so Southgate deserves grief for the latter

I said it before but I think Foden is a good player but he is a City system player and while he is good at that. I think he would struggle if he ever moved on. He rarely impresses for England

[bobzy]

43 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I don’t understand your point anymore. Your argument seems to be don’t use xG without context. I haven’t. 
 

That’s it 

Then don’t post purely with xG and say “harsh loss” because the implication is that you’re doing exactly that. 

[Herman22]

I see the usual suspects are out blaming the ref for England's defeat. I think players like Kane and Saka should look at themselves first. Constantly diving and complaining to the ref! It doesn’t get reported in England as they are English players but both have built up a huge reputation for diving! 

Even the pen that was given on Saka the French player plants his leg and Saka initiated the contact. It’s still a pen but Saka has made the most of the contact and made sure he gets it. 

I come back to the same thing all the time. Make a clear dive a red card offence and you would stamp out 80% of this nonsense almost immediately when players start to realise it going to be enforced. 

[Stevo985]

19 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Then don’t post purely with xG and say “harsh loss” because the implication is that you’re doing exactly that. 

I posted it in the thread where we were talking about the match. That we all watched. 
 

I didn’t realise I had to clarify that. 
 

So just for you “having watched the game to give me the relevant context, this stat also backs up my opinion that England were unlucky to lose”

Hope that’s ok

 

The pedantry on this website man. **** hell

[sne]

Kane, Sterling and to a lesser extent Saka are infamous for their let's call it manufacturing contact (or diving) and that works as long as you play for the big team against lesser opponents. Against equally big teams the ref will not give them the calls as often. Sucks for them I guess.

Edited December 11, 2022 by sne

[PussEKatt]

Im suprised that a dive dosent get a red card for "ungentlemanly conduct"

[PieFacE]

Still gutted about the result last night. If France had have thrashed us 5-0 you hold your hand up and say fair enough. Thought we were the better team all night and the ref had a shocker. 

 

[Wainy316]

 

[MakemineVanilla]

3 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

Im suprised that a dive dosent get a red card for "ungentlemanly conduct"

If we know one thing about the participants of the game it is that they ain't no gentlemen.

There is a moral contract between the players, which prohibits actual GBH, but most other things are permitted up to a certain degree.

Referees and commentators conspire in these deceipts, and holding and blocking are allowed by interpretation if not by the actual laws.

We all see the deliberate foul followed by pleas of innocence - they are euphemistically referred to as the 'dark arts' and referring to them as 'cheating', is not allowed by those who run the game, even when it would be true.

No one is fooled - there are occasional outbreaks of gentlemanly and even noble behaviour but they are so rare, they become the subjects of media comment.

 

 

 

[PussEKatt]

The way the players go down,they must train for it because,no way is it normal behavior to carry on like that when you get a gentle tap on the shoulder/leg/arm etc etc.

[sne]

Just now, PussEKatt said:

The way the players go down,they must train for it because,no way is it normal behavior to carry on like that when you get a gentle tap on the shoulder/leg/arm etc etc.

I know Barcelona did back in the day so pretty likely that City at least do it now.

[sheepyvillian]

I see that old chestnut is being bandied about, "we'll be stronger next time". So will plenty of other countries. How many tournaments does Southgate want?

[Genie]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

We won a penalty. That counts. Why are you excluding that?

It was more a giving away of a penalty if were being honest. A speculative cross that was heading straight out of play. Nothing was coming of it until the moment of madness Hernandez to concede a penalty with no threat at all.

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, Genie said:

It was more a giving away of a penalty if were being honest. A speculative cross that was heading straight out of play. Nothing was coming of it until the moment of madness Hernandez to concede a penalty with no threat at all.

But there’s no reason to exclude that from any xG unless you’re specifically analysing what we created from open play. 
 

Penalties count

[S-Platt]

Disappointed but not gutted like a Villa defeat.

Can cheer for Argentina now for Martinez and Messi without worrying if they played England.

[Genie]

Just now, Stevo985 said:

But there’s no reason to exclude that from any xG unless you’re specifically analysing what we created from open play. 
 

Penalties count

Yeah, but I think our xG is artificially boosted by the fact France gave away a pen when there was no actual threat at all.

Its not like the first one where Saka drew the foul with skill and was lining up a shot.